Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles How do you sight in a light weight rifle?

Recoil starts at initial combustion of the powder.

2MG brought up a good point.. get the rest closer to you than you normally would. it helps with muzzle flip alot and you can control the rise with less grip..

woofer

Personally, I have never been able to shoot a light rifle. My current rig, a win 70 compact in 250-3000, will do about 1.5" with me driving. Just cant shoot the little rigs.

You monly have to move the rest one time, the rifle is moved forward to the original position. Anything resting on the barrel will change the harmonics of the barrel. I would not use that method nor would I trust the POI or group from that method.Rick.

Actually it's exactly the opposite. Recoil is the opposite reaction from the accellaration of the bullet. The accelleration of the bullet stops the instant it leaves the barrel. So aside from perhaps some minor accellations due to residual gas pressure the recoil is almost entirely generated with the bullet in the barrel............................DJ

Ben,
You should also be aware that for a hunting rifle you should sight it in "hand held", not with the fore-end setting on a front rest. The point of impact will be different when a rifle is hand held than when it is setting on a sand bag and front rest. The rifle does move a little while that bullet is going down the barrel, and the movement is quite different when the rifle is hand held. You can rest your front hand or wrist on the front rest, but hold the rifle entirely in your hands. I've personally seen the point of impact shift between hand held and benched be as much as 4" to 6" at a hundred, and the lighter weight the gun is the more pronounced this movement is.

This is why so many rookies carefully rest the barrel of their rifle on the window ledge of the blind, center the crosshairs, take careful aim, and then wonder WTF they missed............

Shooting lightweight rifles is always harder than shooting a heavier one (off the bench at least) It can be done, but your technique has to be good and they are not as forgiving.

Haveing your rifle jump off the rest is a bad thing. You are better to learn a technique that allows you to hold it down.

If you are really interested in the intrinsic accuracy of the rifle, there are a few accuracy aids out there that clamp to the forestock and make it much easier to shoot off a bench. This doesn't help for final sighting in, but it can help you tweak a load if you are having a tough time with your bag.

I'm still learning the light rifle thing myself. I do know that you need consistency!

some you cant hold down <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> 225's at 2725 will lift a large man and his hat <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

woofer

I tried to read this carefully but might have missed it if someone mentioned the fact that light/thin barrels which are so often found on light rifles will, much more often than middle weight or heavy weight, throw fliers as the barrel heats up.

This drives a lot of people crazy but IMO it's not an issue with a rifle used for "one shot kills" such as in a deer hunting rifle.

Usually the only, truly aimed shot, when deer hunting is the first shot so if your rifle throws a flier on the 2nd or 3rd shot isn't such a huge issue since at that point you're usually taking a shot at running game.

I've been a light rifle fan for well over 20 years now and I started with the Remmy 600 and 660 series.

Unless you have a VERY well built light or ultralight rifle with a premium barrel that is carefully bedded and tuned up you'll almost always get filers that will show up somewhere between the 2nd or 4th shots and typically if your rifle is box stock factory it'll be the third shot.

Most of my experience with light rifles in the last 10 years has been with the Remington Model 7SS and they exhibit fliers typically on the third or fourth round unless you're shooting 223 or 243 rounds and then the wall thickness of the barrel provides a bit more stiffness.

You can verify if barrel heating is the issue by waiting until the barrel is "dead cold" between shots. Depending on the ambient temperature and heat generated by the cartridge this can be from 10-20 minutes between shots.

You also need VERY good form and a good trigger that breaks under 3 pounds and is like glass. Have someone else load your rifle and leave out the cartridge every once in awhile to see if you're flinching. That's also an issue and its the rare shooter that doesn't flinch and close their eyes as rounds go off. If you aren't seeing the blossom of burning gasses from the muzzle as you fire and don't flinch when you shoot then you have no hope for accuracy.

In summary.... Thin walled barrels almost always throw fliers as the barrel heats and only a LIBERAL application of money and QUALITY ultralight gunsmith can cure or partially cure it but it's not an issue if you typically kill your game with the first or first and second shot.

My new favorite lightweight rifle is my Remington Titanium in 300SAUM. It doesn't seem to throw fliers in 3 shot groups and I'll be trying 5 shot groups this summer. It has a magnum contour wiht an ultralight action and stock which seems to be the perfect combination for me.

$bob$

My limited experience has taught me to be extra careful to lighten the trigger about squeezing the trigger, and to let the barrel cool completely. Cost me lost of bullets to determne it was the operator, not the gun.

pepaw

Thanks guys. I appreciate all the input. I especially like the discussion about whether or not to hold the fore end. I have a 243win and a 270wby. With both of those I get the best groups if I wrap my off hand around the back of the rear bag. But the 243 doesn't kick much, and the 270wby is 11lbs, so it effectively doesn't recoil much either.

But I noticed something when I was sighting in a new slug gun this fall (20ga NEF Ultra Slug Hunter �great little gun). It would group horribly if I shot it with one hand (using Rem Buckhammer slugs). But If I got a good two-handed death grip on it I could make it cloverleaf at 100yds. My sense is that with a slow moving slug the gun effectively recoils before the slug leaves the barrel. So any movement of the muzzle from side-to-side or up and down causes the point of impact to shift. My only recourse was to try and control the recoil as best I could. My 375 H&H is the same way. I get better groups if I clamp both hands on it and hold on for dear life. But that seems to go against everything I have read about rifle marksmanship off the bench. So I'm wondering if different rules apply for big guns with slower bullets.

And if that's the case then logically the same might be true for lesser calibers in lighter rifles. After all, effective recoil exists in inverse proportion to the weight of the gun. And a lighter gun would have a quicker reaction to recoil than a heavier one would. It takes less energy to get a lighter gun moving. So my suspicion is that without controlling it the muzzle's point of aim shifts due to recoil.

I don't mean to dismiss those who mentioned flinching. I'll be the first to admit that I'm far from God's gift to marksmanship. And I bought my 243 five years ago specifically to work through a flinching problem. But this gun really doesn't kick that much. And in both of those same sessions I was getting 1" or better groups with my 375. And that thing has a way of letting you know each time you shoot it. (Shoot it once and it will kill the moose. Shoot it twice and it kills both you and the moose, if you know what I mean.) I can't believe I was flinching with the tame 300 but not with the monstrous 375.

I'll try moving the front rest further back. I hadn't thought of that as a problem. I tend to move it out as I find it easier to hold a steady sight picture that way. I also need to try a higher rear bag. One of the ways Kimber saved weight was to remove material from the underside of the stock (which makes a lot of sense of you think about it). The only problem is that without having a steady way to elevate the rear bag the gun points toward the sky even with the front rest cranked all the way down. Moving the front rest back would just make that worse. But I'll cut off a piece of 2x6 and put it under the rear bag. That should solve the problem.

I'll let ya'll know how I do. The gun is new to me so I don�t know yet what load I�ll be shooting. So far I�ve been working with 165gr Sierra�s with middle-weight charges of IMR4350 and IMR7828. Aside from the fliers the accuracy looks quite good. In most cases I get two holes touching with the third flier a few inches off right or left. But I need to cure the fliers before I�ll trust what I�m seeing. According to the Sierra manual Varget is one of the best all around powders for this gun and that bullet. So I�m going to try that next.

BTW -VAnimrod. I'm in Burlington. Do you get up this way?

Ben

Same way you do a heavy rifle..get behind it and shoot it...if you can't control it, swap it for something you can shoot.

i always find my 2 shot groups are btter than my 3 shot groups <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

woofer

The acceleration of escaping gasses produce a lot of the rifle's recoil. If that wasn't the case, muzzle brakes wouldn't affect felt recoil.

The gas exits first and you reiterate DJ's crux..................

tightloop,

Wise-up !!!!!!!!

It's not a matter of control, it's technique..........you can "control" it perfectly and shoot schitty groups

Most have not a problem away for the bench.

MM

The point of impact does not change from a bench v/s free handed if you sight a rifle in on a bench and bag and it does not shoot good free handed its not the rifles fault .. its the hands fault arifle does not know if the forarm is on a vise or sandbag or in a hand it will shoot the same every time if the hand is as steady as the bench

I JUST DONT BUY THAT

The (propellent) gasses (which the muzzle brake redirects), exit (the barrel) before the bullet exits (the barrel). Makes perfect sense.