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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,432
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,432 |
SWFA passed the fall over test. Old 700AS stock - not so much. ![[Linked Image]](https://s6.postimg.org/k8pq5l8r5/IMG_20170401_130117819.png)
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,116 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,116 Likes: 1 |
My rifles have taken a beating before I even get out of the truck.
Washed out dirt roads and 3\4 ton suspension will rattle and bounce the chit out of everything.
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,008 Likes: 21
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,008 Likes: 21 |
Yeah - truly enlightening to see how hardcore some of you guys "hunt". Duly noted when these same people have any opinion of gear or well, pretty much anything...
Never fallen with your rifle? Laughable...
I guess some of us are just more coordinated and/or know how to negotate steep terrain while keeping our rifles from harm better than others. Next time you go sheep hunting, or goat hunting as Gerry pointed out, get back to us.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,187 |
Well, that was a disappointing little test. I guess even the expensive Tracts are pretty much the same as the Nikons their principals came from, on the inside(?). The grass & leaves didn't seem like they allowed very hard impacts. I've certainly had a rifle tip over before, or otherwise banged it on something or dropped it. Never on purpose, obviously, but it's certainly happened.
I haven't had significant issues as a result of such lapses with a couple of scope lines, and I've just added a Bushy, so we'll see how that goes, but I _have_ had issues with other scope lines or brands. Hope the LRHS stays put.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874 |
Dang, this thread is depressing. Do I have a chance in hades of killing anything this year, or should I start scope shopping now? I can always put my SS 3-9x42 on that 7-08 if I have to (helluva good scope IMO).
A couple years ago I did a "drop test" with my 3-9x SS on a Kimber Montana. I wanted a fairly severe impact but no "road rash", so I put the works in one of those cheap Plano rifle cases (thin plastic). Instead of dropping the rifle, I threw it about 20 feet, from a ~5 foot height. On the second throw, the muzzle of the barrel punched a hole thru the case. It landed on some small logs for at least one impact; we were shooting from a log landing. I checked the muzzle to make sure it wasn't plugged with dirt, then hit a 6" target at 490 yards from prone. I never had to adjust the zero on that scope after that test, or after some some pretty hard falls in blow down while hunting. Certainly not scientific, but reassuring that nothing shifted. Jason
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,387 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,387 Likes: 3 |
One thing to keep in mind: we can't conclusively say the impact caused the scopes to change zero. The base or rings -- or even a change to the way the actions rested in their respective stocks after the falls -- may have been at fault for the shift in POI. It may have even been a combination of things.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,777 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,777 Likes: 6 |
One thing to keep in mind: we can't conclusively say the impact caused the scopes to change zero. The base or rings -- or even a change to the way the actions rested in their respective stocks after the falls -- may have been at fault for the shift in POI. It may have even been a combination of things. Yes, Formidilosus mentioned this. Bedding, action screws, bases, rings, etc are all part of it.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,334 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,334 Likes: 1 |
One thing to keep in mind: we can't conclusively say the impact caused the scopes to change zero. The base or rings -- or even a change to the way the actions rested in their respective stocks after the falls -- may have been at fault for the shift in POI. It may have even been a combination of things. Bobby at some point you have to ask how many points does it take to draw a line? We have two points now. SWFA seems to pass such tests if I am not mistaken?
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,387 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,387 Likes: 3 |
Though people have jumped on the bandwagon, SWFA is far from perfect. I personally know of at least two individuals -- one with a variable and one a straight 6x -- in the past month who had one go haywire and have read of others. No manufacturer (not that SWFA is one -- they are just a retailer) is immune, either, and that includes makers of high-dollar optics.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,444
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,444 |
Scopes are not made of armor plate. They are aluminum tubes holding glass and metal or plastic components. They are an optical instrument.
The military has specifications for drop tests. Years ago a company put a new radio through a mil-spec drop test. Then the engineers read the spec. The spec called for the radio to be drop tested IN ITS PACKAGING. As the project lead reported at the next review "This radio is not available for further testing."
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 343
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 343 |
I have little doubt that there are issues with them, but I do want to put the caveat out there that mounts, rings, and bedding play a part as well. I just want people to understand that rifles are a system. If you want your gun to stay zeroed then you have to use scopes, mounts, and rings that are designed for that, then they have to be assembled correctly.
Well this certainly isn't great to see on a Monday morning. By no means will we just ignore this post or video...but as Formidosus summed up above, there are a lot of unknowns on this test. Certainly no offense to SamO either, as any test like this done by company's are typically meticulously planned to cover all such variables. First off, Sam, if you think there is a issue with the Toric, give us a call and we'll pick that scope up and test it and if there is any issue, absolutely replace it. I say it like that because we will put the scope in a testing jig to eliminate all human or other mechanical potential error for testing. We don't want to second guess if the rings came loose, base screws, or just other environmental (wind in this case) or human errors.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,109 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,109 Likes: 3 |
For the sake of research, does anybody have a SWFA and 30mm rings they could send SamO to repeat the test on the Kimber? 
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,873 Likes: 12
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,873 Likes: 12 |
SamO,
Just watched the video.
Wow, that's really taking one (two) for the team!
When I saw the Leupy land on the bell, I knew where that was headed, just like my Sako story.
Makes me think that scopes with straight-tube front ends, or smaller ones anyway (especially close to the front ring) are more likely to live through falls from leaning situations. Also, it occurs to me that heavy scopes are more likely to rotate around during a fall and land right on the worst place.
Thanks.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 343
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 343 |
I don't understand why the hell fiolks are dropping rifles in the first place. I've hunted every season for the past 42 years and have never actually dropped a rifle. Much of that has been afoot, still hunting steep, snow covered terrain in the Catskills. If dropping rifles is a common occurance ya'll must be some clumsy fuggers. Have you ever hunted sheep? Goat hunting is really rough on gear too. I haven't hunted sheep or goat, need to save some more pennies. I do think if I had my rifle fall on its scope on a hunt of that nature I may back off and take a shot of to to confirm the rifle is still sighted in. A hunt like that would be in the many thousands of dollars for me and the peace of mind confirming 1 or 2 shots would put me at ease. Everyone may feel differently though.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,878
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,878 |
I started doing “drop tests” a few years back, the results were enlightening and disappointing. They’ve led me to become fairly obsessive about my bases, rings, and scopes. All my rifles now wear 1 piece rails, pinned and glued both, with good picatinny ring systems. My light duty hunting scope is a LRHS, and my heavy rifles have 34mm tube Bushnells. Zero is not never lost, but it’s now quite rare, and by small amounts (.2 mil vs 2-6 inches). Results in the field have improved as well, very noticeably. It’s to the point I occasionally don’t confirm zero with every rifle as my first order of business at the range, I sometimes go straight to practicing! Used to be I was slipping a turret on something virtually every range trip...
I hope you get everything sorted out Sam, if you’re like me it can drive you a little crazy till you do.
Empirical results rule!
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,279
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,279 |
I have fallen hard with rifles more than once when hunting rough country. Also, Once had a leather sling slip off my shoulder and land on the turret. Falls and airplane rides seem to result in about a 30 percent chance of losing zero in my experience. Mounts matter, too, when rifles are used hard. I am pretty specific about what mounts I will use and have whole rifle lines that I boycott because of ill conceived mounting systems (i.e. Sako).
In my opinion, scopes have the biggest need for improvement in regards to reliability. The norm is truly terrible. Rifle function is a distant second. I have had three of a brand of well respected high end rifles known for accuracy and not one would feed to my expectation, though most seem to rave about them. Had four of a high-end lightweight rifle that fed a little better but not much and if you worked the action from the shoulder like one would a Mauser, the spring holding the bolt stop would break and the bolt would fly out the back of the action. I think it happened to everyone of them at least once. The maker always got really grouchy when I called to have one of those springs shipped. Would his first name start with an M????
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,260 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,260 Likes: 11 |
Yeah - truly enlightening to see how hardcore some of you guys "hunt". Duly noted when these same people have any opinion of gear or well, pretty much anything...
Never fallen with your rifle? Laughable...
I guess some of us are just more coordinated and/or know how to negotate steep terrain while keeping our rifles from harm better than others. Next time you go sheep hunting, or goat hunting as Gerry pointed out, get back to us. Since I've never hunted sheep or goats and have zero desire to ever do so I reckon I don't need a sheep/goat hunting proof scope.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,729
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,729 |
Thanks for posting this. To my eye, that doesn't seem to be an overly tough "test" and it is disappointing to see the change with both scopes.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,334 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,334 Likes: 1 |
Though people have jumped on the bandwagon, SWFA is far from perfect. I personally know of at least two individuals -- one with a variable and one a straight 6x -- in the past month who had one go haywire and have read of others. No manufacturer (not that SWFA is one -- they are just a retailer) is immune, either, and that includes makers of high-dollar optics. my cousins wifes brothers son had a friend who also had the same problem. Bobby come on now...what is your agenda here?
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,387 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,387 Likes: 3 |
jimmyp-
Your ridiculous post doesn't justify a response, but I'll ask nonetheless: How does stating facts equate to having an agenda?
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