Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Tract Toric drop test part deux

Are we discounting Formidolosus million round per year torture testing and ignoring his claim that SWFA, Bushy LRHS, and NF is the only scopes that stand up to it? I'm not. And I'm proud that finally many are catching on. Without demand there will be no change for the better.

How do we know that the SWFA is more durable?

I'm going to drop test one but it's going to be a fixed power...not a variable. What if the mounts hold on it...what if the mounts were the cause of the change of poi with the Toric....what if the ground is softer when I drop the SWFA (it's been raining today).

Cause Formi has been down this road.

There is that.

I am concerned that I could have painted Tract in a corner because of mounts or testing that another scope might not have passed. It's the reason I'm going to drop the SWFA....although I wish it was a variable. I could use a 1-4 SWFA I have but they are already suspect......

I tried the SWFA 3-9 drop test yesterday.

Dropped three times from shoulder level onto hard packed dirt. Once on the elevation turret, once on the windage, and once on the objective. Mounted on a Tikka T3x Superlite 308, with a DNZ Game Reaper mount.

Point of impact changed .1 mil to the right.

Yikes, 4 - 5 feet on hard pack is quite a lick. Love it. I want the manufacturers nervous when the guys from the Campfire get hold of a scope.

Wildcat,

You bring up some good points. While some members here have asked us to do "torture tests", theres a little more to it than just the test. There isn't one standardized test format to follow, and even if we created one and we stated or showed the scopes passed, there would undoubtedly be naysayers or others claiming results were tainted. We are however, all for posting 3rd party testing, especially in the form of forums and member testing. Its just better all around, ESPECIALLY, if other manufacturers are involved. We'd be all for providing a test scope if someone could gather other manufacturers to do the same.

This is why we sent out the Response scope, and while we are taking some 'flak' for its latest review, it went thru 3 other reviews and tests in regular range and hunting conditions and did very well. However, with Form's test and review, it exposed potential issues and we are very interested in getting that scope back and reviewing it to see what can be done to make improvements to better pass the tests Form, and others, want scopes to.

As for the Toric tests, I heard some good feedback as well as feedback needing attention at the manufacturing level. As Jay stated, in a real world test where the rifle and scope took a good tumble and fell, the scope and rifle held zero. After multiple induced drop tests from 3'-4' in height, there was a need to re check and re adjust to zero. We are absolutely taking note of these tests and observations and looking into them along with the factory to see what can be done to improve our products to be able to take these induced failure tests. As mentioned above, Our Turion, Tekoa, and Toric are made right next to many other brands (mentioned above) by the same technicians, sometimes using same components out of the same factories, but of course, we all do have proprietary parts and glass, coatings, etc, to add to the manufacturing process.The 22Fire and Response scopes are not coming out of that same factory.

I've said it before guys, we are here to show you the optics we are making and listen to what you think, feel, like, hate, and most importantly, what you want to see. There's certainly room to make improvements and combine what we have with some more of what you guys are looking for.

Also, if I would've done this with a less accurate rifle, the difference in zero may not have shown up.

.1 mil is small enough to get "lost in the noise" of varied atmospheric conditions, differences in hold, me having a bad day shooting, etc.

In this case, I shot the rifle for zero, performed the drop test, and shot again, on an almost calm day.

PG, for the reasons you stated, I'd take 0.1 MIL any day.

He doesn't discount the role mounts play in this whole thing either.

I agree!

This is a pretty new rifle, too, which I haven't completely fleshed out as far as accuracy - it has shown itself to shoot a couple 1 MOA 10 shot groups (though I'm by no means saying it will do that every day). So it could've just been how the gun was shooting and not changed zero at all. Anyway, even if it wasn't the most scientific test, I'm happy with my results and it gave me a lot of confidence in this rifle/scope/mount.

lol.... I was doing it on steel at 200 yards. .1 MIL would have gotten lost in the paint chips!

I do like the DNZ mounts.

Whitetail MT, I have confidence that Formi knows how to discern and didn't arbitrarily pick the three.

The calls for lab-style testing and repeatability are laudable and appropriate. They also assure that the underlying manufacturers design to the test. That's why dropping things is the best and most appropriate _final_ test at this particular time, regardless of the lab tests. Lab tests _must_ properly replicate the durability desired in the field, otherwise the repeatability is worse than useless; it's misleading.

Perhaps looking at the testing that Snell and Sharp (and US DOT) do on motorcycle and automobile helmets would be instructive toward combining fall or impact testing with repeatability(?).

OBTW: Not all SWFAs are LOW products. Apparently(?) some are LOW-made, but others are made by Kenko (or were, unless they've switched manufacturers recently). Maybe there are additional sources; IDK. The underlying point is that the manufacturer is clearly irrelevant to durability. Design, materials, and build _can_ all be achieved by more than one outfit.

I have confidence that Form has proper rifles, mounts, bedding, and shooting skills available to do these kinds of tests. I don't know enough about this particular thread's source to comment (no offense meant) other than to say it appears to track what Form found.

I'm pleased that Tract is looking at these things, and I hope its principals truly mean to make a high-durability scope from this feedback.

It wouldn't be had to set up a test rig to do that, using a calibrated swinging arm similar to an Izod or Charpy test setup.

They'd probably still have you do it. They aren't just having you check that the zero hasn't moved, they also want to see whether you can actually shoot.

It is obvious that some scopes are more rugged internally than other just from lots of anecdotal evidence. Some individual scopes are just well put together also. I have a VX3 2.5-8 B&C that resides on a Remington Mountain rifle. I was carrying it on my shoulder and my dog, which was on a lead, circled behind me to get at a rattlesnake and tripped me. I did a full on flip and landed on the slung rifle. I knew it was toast. It crushed the screw on adjustment cover but was was only off by about 1/4" when I checked zero. I then rode my mountain bike down a steep hill and with the high center of gravity, flipped over forward landing face first in the rocks and them cartwheeling over my onto the rifle. Broke my nose, my glasses and my watch but the rifle was still zeroed perfectly. Most recently, I flipped my 4 wheeler over backwards with the rifle strapped to the front gun rack. It land right on top of the scope and bent the little u shaped racks. Scope was still zeroed.

Nothing fancy in mounts. I am a big fan of Weaver grand slam bases and the Leupold PRW rings. These are the same Leupolds that fall apart on our 22 hornets it seems. I have broken a LOT of scopes but this particular one is like indestructible!

Drop testing is really quite hit/miss as you just never know where it will hit. Who knows what the trigger point on a scope is that causes it to let loose inside. It is nice when they are robust enough that NOTHING seems to bother them. The Nightforce video was pretty impressive.

I've done some guiding, and very much get that notion, but at least it wouldn't be a "make sure your scope is still on", sort of thing.

Sounds like you need to stay away from dogs and anything with wheels

For sure.