Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters TSX fps for expansion?

I know this has been discussed several times in the past however my search feature doesn't work anymore so I had to ask.

Is there an agreed minimum fps required for a .257-.308 caliber TSX to expand reliably?

I don't want to start a big arguement, just curious about the TSX. If anyone has links to prior posts that would be helpful also.
Thanks,
Sam

The report that Barnes put out is IIRC 1600 to 1800 fps Agin IIRC.

Sorry I"m not home to calculate, but furtherest shot so far with barnes has been 802 yards. Expansion happened on the first rib shot and the second was a spine shot. 338 Win mag, 225 starting 2750 appx(can't recall that figure exact either as its a friends rifle)

You can backtrack that down to 800 yards and see what speed we were at.

I used to hear 1200 fps from Barnes IIRC. But I believe in results rather than printed info. IE don't really care that much about print, now I know the 225 works to 800 anyway.

Jeff

Here's some results of tests I did recently in wet newspaper witht he Barnes 6.8 110 gr. TSX.

Nice pics Dan.

Expanding enough to slightly deform the nose and expanding enough to aid in the bullets efficiency to kill game is two different things.

I test the Barnes X 30-30 150gr. flat hollow points out of a 30-30 Marlin. Muzzle velocity was just a tad over 2,100 fps. At 100 yards they were showing very slight expansion in wet rough-cut pine boards. I would be afraid to use them on small southern deer at ranges past 125 yards. To little expansion is just as bad as over expanding....

Dan it appears that Barnes was thinking .270 Win instead of the lower velocity 6.8 SPC for the 110 gr. X-bullet ?

Yep, they were afraid they would shed petals if shot in a .270 rifle if they built them fragile enough to expand reliably at 6.8 SPC velocities. Makes no sense to me since they are specifically labeled for the 6.8.

Thanks for all the help folks.
My personal maximum of 400ish yards for shots will leave plenty of velocity.
Sam

Wow! From that picture, looks like it would take a 2300fps impact velocity to keep me happy!

John

I shot black bear this past season, 140 yards lasered, with a 225 grain TSX, started at 2500 from my Whelen. The bullet entered the right eye pulped the skull, broke the neck and continued ondown along the back muscles coming to rest under the hide after glancing off a rib. The bullet was 100% expanded 100% weight retention after a good two feet of bear bone and muscle. Performance!! Alot more than you need for deer or antelope.

FWIW on barnes, I"ve tested in a number of media and had so so results. Talking to Barnes, they claim it takes the hydraulics of wet tissue. IE the real animal. Guess what? Though I've shot more than a handful into wet dirt even, or wet newspaper that don't open, every animal I"ve shot so far they have opened.

The one that had me most scared was the X pistol bullet in my 50 beowulf. Huge cavity, yet half of those dug out of extemely wet dirt are not open or not totally open at 100 yards. Having shot about 4 deer and some hogs so far, EACH one that hits ribs( I stay way off the shoulders or spine) has expanded to about double its size by the exit wound. Have not found one back yet though, but due to exit size, its expanded. And found one loose petal in the exit tissue of one deer so far. They are working.

Jeff

I dont get it Jeff.
No expert here on these new whizz bang bullets but why would they open up on game but not something with the resistance of a wet phone book or mother earth??

To make them open, there has to be something fluid enough to get inside that tiny hollow point and "pop" it open. Wet phone books, or especially something like wooden boards, don't get inside the point well enough.

The odd thing to me however, in that explanation, is that sometimes we see pics of TSXs that opened up on the entrance side of the hide. That would mean the hair is opening the hollow point, which to me makes no sense. I wonder if the occasional pics of large entrance wounds are actually some sort of 'blowback' from very quick opening in the flesh just under the hide??? After all, they are basically constructed like a varmint bullet, in so much as they are a fast opening hollow point on one end.

I tested those 6.8 TSX bullets in water jugs as well and got eactly the same results. Full expansion did not occur below 2300 fps. Barnes confirmed they got the same results more or less. I was told I would get single caliber expansion at 1800fps. I did. But I was also told single caliber expansion is sufficient for game. It is not.

I'm not knocking the bullets. I have had good luck with them on game. I'm just careful to make sure I have sufficient velocity at impact range.

TH
I don't understand it either. But there is definitely a difference.
I start 85 tsx at about 2700, and have shot them out to almost 400 yards, probably slowing a bit by then. Entry 6mm, exit appx half inch or just under from a glance. Definite doubles the bullet size. Deer is dead each time. Don't need more than that. Plus it holds together enough to penetrate a deer stem to stern at a bit over 225 so far. Thats peformance I can't complain about. Able to kill from any angle, won't blow up on bone(a number of head shots at under 60 yards) and will kill and or penetrate as needed. Yet to recover one of them either.

Strange how it works, but work they do, for me anyway.

Dan-- I'd have bet they should work in water though, wonder if the bullet is engineered for gel type or meat type specifically? Don't know, but every exit hole I've ever seen- and i've yet to personally recover one even past 800 yards, has been at least double the bullet size. Which is all any other bullet will do, larger holes come from secondary frags which are another issue. Never did like all the damage from huge exits but thats me. I"ve no qualms looking for a deer a bit as I've mentioned on other threads, I actually look forward to the puzzle. The other week it took us about 1.5 hours to unwrap a puzzle. Keeps one very sharp. But its like reading sign, it gets really interesting.

Jeff

Dakota
I've had what you describe a few times early on with the X and some ammo from my brother in law. 150s in 300 wtby. I never shoot light crap due to wind drift, but I needed ammo and he had some to spare. The entry wounds were large, or if not large, then average but missing all the hair for at least an inch around the entry... Hard to explain, a weird phenomenon for me. I just cleaned them and swore off light bullets once again as a stupid decision. Those deer ran just as far as any other, maybe a bit easier to trail, other than that dead, and too much meat destruction for my tastes.

I thoght a bit, was it hydraulic energy transfered or secondary frags blowing back out?

Jeff

I have been using the 130 grain in my 30-06 this past year. On four animals, I had none of the 'blowback,' just the typical entry in and exit out, with dead animals in between.

I really liked the lower recoil, the flat trajectory, and the non-messy holes. I'll keep using the light bullet until it shows me it can't go far enough through an animal, which I honestly doubt, seeing how the 120 in a 7mm will shoot through both shoulders on a moose.

I shot some TSX and Accubonds into wet phonebooks and "chip" board sheeting yesterday and got picture perfect mushrooms from both. Impact velocity was 3000fps from my .300WSM.
I will post pictures and detailed results when I get batteries for the camera tomorrow.
Sam

Flat point handgun bullsts kill extremely well with zero expansion

Here's one recovered from an elk taken at 280 yards. It started life as a 185 gr 338 TSX at 2970 fps and ended life under the hide of the off shoulder impacting at ~2,300 fps and weighing 121 grs.

Yes, they do in larger calibers. Don't know of anyone using flat nose hard cast bullets in .25 to 30 caliber handguns though.