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Joined: Jul 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,668 Likes: 6 |
We have big bucks, and you don't have to own a bunch of land to get them. You do have to put some work into your hunting efforts though (or many times people just get stupid lucky with very little effort). That's the way it's always been and that's the way it should be.
Truth. But there is no question there are less of them today than about anytime in my 30 years of hunting.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,765 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,765 Likes: 7 |
I think hunting and fishing regulations should move forward with the rule that for every single new regulation, two old regulations need to go away.
This heap good plan Kemosabe
The deer hunter does not notice the mountains
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve" - Isoroku Yamamoto
There sure are a lot of America haters that want to live here...
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065 |
An out of state observation, fwiw...had 20+ seasons in or near boundary waters--I suppose that is "north" enough...
Minne has the same issues as Michigan, 500,000 hunters and they all are right, all the time. My Dad always said, "son, retail is for gentiles". Good on anyone or any organization that tries to keep the bitching to a dull roar.
Forests change. Deer need chow and the cutting clear provides that. Wolves move deer around to different areas in bigger country, much further than farmdog does barking up some trespassers.
From what I can tell so far in Michigan, regarding the wolf "introduction"-- both species adapt for survival. Not so, many hunters. The absolute best outcome for deer are when the wolves managed on the local level.
Sometimes a guy has to work a little harder when the old honey hole dries up...:)
Defend the Constitution
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293 |
Pete, yeah I know about Roger's cattle and that whole mess. It's a sore subject (mostly the management efforts).
I did see more deer last season than I have for probably about 10 yrs though. My camera pictures from last year show more deer and encouraging numbers of healthy young bucks, a lot of which would have made many hunters very happy. I do think they are rebounding.
Less involvement from the dnr is what I'd personally like to see. It's my personal opinion that when it comes to nature, if you try to steer it in your desired direction, you almost ALWAYS put it in the ditch.
Obviously as seen in my post above, I get cranky when I figure folks want the state to "fix nature". I'm of the firm opinion that those that want to "manage deer quality" need to make it a personal priority and a personal effort. But don't force it on your fellow man. Work hard, buy land, possibly with like minded hunters as a group effort. Get your land and QDM the bejesus out of it. Then bitch about the neighbor that shot "your deer".
If that doesn't work, build a fence, buy some deer, buy the right genes, breed per your goals, supplement antler growth with your own personally engineered efforts, buy/sell/trade etc. Pick one out and shoot it.
I am however 100% onboard with reintroducing a wolf season. Why the hell wouldn't we want that? I don't know a deer hunter that doesn't want a season on wolves, horn and meat hunters alike.
Something clever here.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293 |
We have big bucks, and you don't have to own a bunch of land to get them. You do have to put some work into your hunting efforts though (or many times people just get stupid lucky with very little effort). That's the way it's always been and that's the way it should be.
Truth. But there is no question there are less of them today than about anytime in my 30 years of hunting. I guess so. But every year I can still go down to the local hardware store and look at the pictures on the big buck board and the big deer are never not on that board. I sure as hell don't find them, but I think it's maybe because I don't look real hard. lol!
Something clever here.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,503 Likes: 3
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Although I left MN near five decades ago, I'm still involved in our old camp at Dentaybow.
The number of deer hunters in that area is about 25% of what I saw in 50s and 60s.
I don't recall MN DNR ever being very active in deer management other than regulating
season dates and closures etc.
Minnesota's problems are not just in the DNR as there are a multitude of bureaucracies
issuing more feel good regulations and taxes.
Are there any Hmongs on the committee?
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293 |
Minnesota's problems are not just in the DNR as there are a multitude of bureaucracies
issuing more feel good regulations and taxes.
Agreed. DNR just gets to be the punching bag for when things don't go well for everyone. I believe they simply carry out and enforce decisions that are cooked up by many interests.
Something clever here.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
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I give you that the winters are a big issue. Michigan took the opportunity to blame the initial wolf kill-off on the harsh winters. This one didn't help.
But, and it is just an opinion, in the last few decades there is more attention on big racks than ever. And the equipment is better, expert knowledge is now common knowledge, and seasons have all expanded. Dat's revenue. When we first started hunting Kansas better than 20 year ago (IIRC), an older lady in a restaurant asked me where I was from and why I was there. She thought I was nuts for driving that far for a deer. The locals I knew then thought weekends were sufficient. Now high school kids are talking in B&C points. The business guys I knew from Detroit added "trophy" rooms bigger than half my house... Geez...
The pressure is on.
Defend the Constitution
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Joined: Apr 2017
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I recall when MN closed the deer season state wide in 1973. That closure brought around the system of zones and permits now so commonly seen here. From the end of WWII to that point, the DNR closed the season in the south zone approximately half the time and the north zone a handful of times due to low deer populations. Tags were good for any deer and few, if any, passed up a shot as deer were so uncommon.
Hunter numbers were much smaller than today and success rates were not as high due to the low number of deer. Large racks were not as plentiful as then since any deer was fair game and a spike was as prized as a Thurdy pointer.
Those who have been deer hunting in MN the last 25 years or so have never had it so good. It is not near the peak of the early 2000's but even today is so much better than 1974-1990. During that time it was thought One's chances of tagging a deer was virtually zero without drawing a highly coveted doe tag where percentages went up to the teens. The week before deer season in November 1979 had a half dozen hunters ask permission to hunt our farm because a buck was seen running across the road- in August. Even seeing deer tracks was a topic for weeks and anyone who shot a deer got their picture in the local paper after registering it. Bagging a deer, any deer, was a big deal back then and most today never experienced such adversity.
I'll take today over 40+ years ago gladly. Even public land has deer if one wishes to put in the effort. Big bucks are more common today than in the "Olden Days" due to more deer but it is the stories, tales, and legends people like to cling to. It's been two seasons I haven't drawn a doe tag, at least two more since one could take a doe in my zone. Still, I am happy as I've seen more deer most days than in a season when I started and my not shooting a buck has been the result of passing on smaller ones rather than not seeing any.
The biaching being done today is nitpicking as they are complaining of not bagging a record book buck. Be fortunate you are not considering the season a success because you saw a deer track- once.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,580
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,580 |
In this thread we figure out who HUNTS and who HARVESTS.
You actually have to HUNT if you want a big woods northern MN buck. And, to be successful more than a small percentage of the time, you have to not suck at hunting AND have the time..
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Joined: May 2004
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Joined: May 2004
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Sounds like like I should head to the Chickenbuck camp to see some deer. Northern Wisconsin seems to be worse. Last year, my son and I didn't see a deer. Granted, we didn't try very hard and for good reason. We have about given up. I am glad to say I did see a bear opening day and altogether we kicked up 14 grouse. The deer hunting is just terrible and it is vein flogged off aggressively to boot. I was there last week and hardly a twig to be found that was browsed. A pile of deer droppings here and there . I saw no deer or wolf kills. I got so disappointed that I took off to Upper Michigan. Upper Michigan is not known for a lot of deer. I went to the Hiawatha National Forest, got out , took gps and compass reading and followed a river upstream for about 3/4 mi. I walked 100' and noticed more deer track . I found the deer number were several times higher if you count deer droppings and trails. Minnesota does some thing right. One is they start the season two weeks earlier and that is huge in the big woods cause it starts at the thail end of the rut instead of when the bucks are all worn out and half rutted to death. The bucks are tired and do not move much. This and the suspicion that the neighbors are still poaching is the only realistic conclusion I can think of. I'd love to try northern Minnesota . I bet I'd do better.
But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Joined: Feb 2008
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I started killing deer back in the 50s. I hunted a fair amount where deer season unofficially opened in late August. 1965 was a hard year and it killed a lot of deer with low fawn production on top of the winter kill. 1669 was more of the same.
During even those historically tough years I had to hunt places I had never hunted before. Some places had deer, some didn't. I ate deer year after year. I quit shooting bucks bigger than spike/forks about 72ish. But...Before I quit I did learn two things important to shooting bucks. First, they don't have the same dietary need as does and second the "old ways" of driving out every piece of country holding deer works well to move the bucks out to where they can be shot.
If you want bucks you either have to go to them and kick 'em out to where you want 'em or you learn where they live and hunt them there.
I hunted in places where there were wolves the whole time and off and on in places where there were non wolves. They never seemed to me to be much of the reason for no deer.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,751
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,751 |
Northern Wisconsin seems to be worse. Last year, my son and I didn't see a deer. Granted, we didn't try very hard and for good reason. We have about given up. My son and I hunt northern WI. We hunt public land southern Douglass and northern Washburn Co's. I'm not sure if we found a pocket of deer over the last 5 years or if the numbers are up. I do know in the area we hunt, it's been bucks only, except for kids 16 and under, for over 5 years. I have to be honest. It's been fantastic hunting for us. There are enough deer to see actual rut activity. Rubs, scrapes, bucks sparing on trail cam's. We do hunt northern St. Louis Co in MN as well. It's not been nearly as good. But we get a deer every so often. I seem to get a buck there every 2-3 years or so. I never seem to see the rut sign like we do in WI for some reason. A little bit, but not like we do there.
Camp is where you make it.
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Joined: May 2004
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Joined: May 2004
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Thanks TZone, it is encouraging that the whole state is not as bad as where I hunt. I dont know why but 2017 season was so bad it was unreal. The dee numbers should be up and seemed to be in the winter of 2016-17 according to the trail cams. Last week I pulled the SD cards and there were very few deer. There was not a buck on the cam since Nov. 10, 2017. Sure they drop their horns by February but ya think we would get a buck on the cam. Not even a buck you could tell shed their antlers. There is a lot of logging 1 mi. away and they could be heading for the logged tree tops. Very little deer sign though.
But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,029 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,029 Likes: 1 |
MN and WI both have a multitude of issues in the northern halves of the state.
Yeah, wolves, bears, and some improper management are involved. But rarely do I see mentioned the lack of cutting on National Forest lands, and, in my mind, it's the biggest of the enchiladas.
The young growth that all wildlife needs to flourish is either in very small pockets or it simply doesn't exist at all.
Extreme winters have not helped the cause of late either.
Scott, the forest areas around our camp are being harvested full swing, have been regularly for quite some time now. I honestly get a little nervous that soon nothing will be left lol. Hopefully this helps our deer rebound from the bovine TB management disaster we had in our area. As far as this topic and some of the comments, I'm not for a more detailed management plan. We are hunters, the king allows us to take a deer from his kingdom in trade for money paid to the king. That's enough goddam management for me. When you drill down deeper with fine print conditions on how to hunt the kings deer, the king can shuvhisdeeruphisass. It's a liberal move and I'm sure liberal hunters would love it. "this state sucks, there are no big horns, I need the big horns and it's the states fault for not making everybody pass on the small bucks" I say F-you, go hunt somewhere else if you think it's someone else's fault that you can't find a big buck. If you are to that point where you want the state to throw conditions on all of your fellow public land deer hunters so that you might be able to get a better deer more easily, I'd really rather you just get your checkbook out and buy yourself a high fence hunt. If I choose to pass on a small buck, that's fine. My decision. But the thought that my kids or other young hunters can't shoot a spike or a basket because some QDM Nazis got there way on a state level? F that, I'll go to war againstthatshit. We have big bucks, and you don't have to own a bunch of land to get them. You do have to put some work into your hunting efforts though (or many times people just get stupid lucky with very little effort). That's the way it's always been and that's the way it should be. I think hunting and fishing regulations should move forward with the rule that for every single new regulation, two old regulations need to go away. Some guys might find it hard to understand, but big horns are not a priority for all hunters. Detailed management efforts to improve the "quality" of the deer because some hunters figure all deer should look like high fence freaks, nope, F that. No thanks. Dang ND... when you get on a roll... you roll far. I'm in your camp except for one thing. I call QDM Nazi's really QDM zombies... because they drink the kool-aid and buy the products.... Its when they push their agenda onto the neighbors and try to influence state policies that I agree with the Nazi name. I'm sending you an electronic 24hrcampfire beer to toast by. The hunting on my farm west of Bemidji has greatly improved since my time starting in the late 70s when my does tags went un-punched... We let our guests take what they want and we just enjoy the hunt. We could probably get more bigger deer if we put more time in trail cameras. moving stands, and food plots, but that seems to take time away from the working cattle side of our farm and they are more tasty.
Other than that, How was the show Mrs. Lincoln?
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293 |
I overdid it a tish.
It's that whole "I know what's best for everyone" mentality that irks me.
I don't do deer drives, but it doesn't bother me if other camps do deer drives. No problems, but if someone says I HAVE to do deer drives, nope. I don't care for someone making me do a deer drive any more than I care to tell someone else they CANT do a deer drive.
Just an example.
Buy the license, shut up and hunt. lol
I don't care for the "My way is best for me and so I want everybody to be forced to do it my way."
Best of luck to all, hermit Dave out.
Something clever here.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 42,165 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 42,165 Likes: 11 |
I don't think so Dave !
That's why you are so appreciated. Just an honest, straight forward, logical guy.
Sometimes, the snowflakes need to hear what is real !
Paul.
"Kids who grow up hunting, fishing & trapping, do not mug little old Ladies"
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,029 Likes: 1 |
I overdid it a tish.
It's that whole "I know what's best for everyone" mentality that irks me.
I don't do deer drives, but it doesn't bother me if other camps do deer drives. No problems, but if someone says I HAVE to do deer drives, nope. I don't care for someone making me do a deer drive any more than I care to tell someone else they CANT do a deer drive.
Just an example.
Buy the license, shut up and hunt. lol
I don't care for the "My way is best for me and so I want everybody to be forced to do it my way."
Best of luck to all, hermit Dave out. Second beer sent. The volume was just right. Beware if you step out on some of the MN facebook hunting groups... snowflake meltdown. Zombie-ism at its best.
Other than that, How was the show Mrs. Lincoln?
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,346 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Here`s my biggest problem with the DNR book smart people may be in charge but have no common sense city people. like the person who is now in charge of Minnesota state deer herd > this person has never deer hunted ,just how does that work ? DNR people should not even be hired unless they have purchased hunting and fishing licenses in Minnesota since they were kids . our state needs people that are hunters and fisherman at least they would have heart to improve hunting and fishing and yes understand what is needed.
>> yes and now let`s let the liberal`s say how we need these book smart liberals . your wrong ! we don`t ! over half the Minnesota DNR employees don`t hunt or fish and do want wolves to be continued to be protected also. I have my sources and all`s I can say this is dang shameful in Minnesota, one young man who enjoys the outdoors a lot quit the DNR because of how this practice continues with non hunters -non-fisherman liberals.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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There's mentality among the QDM crowd that they are ENTITLED to and NEED to havest a Booner evey year, and that's just plain wrong. For the vast majority of hunters, a truly big buck is a once in a lifetime event, and there's nothing wrong with that. I too say GFY to those who feel they have the right to tell me what's legal to harvest. If you really need buckzilla that bad, buy him and be done with it.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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