Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire WW II Buffs or Aircraft guys... Help needed

http://warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/p38lightning_WRG-0022788.html

So the attached link shows a P-38 lightening that crash landed on Middleburg Island in August of 1944. I just so happened to have a great uncle who died in a P-38 crash on Middleburg Island in August of 1944.

So, does the crash landing seems to show a survivable crash? Is the plane upside down or right side up in the picture? The only description I have of his crash is that a landing gear caught the seawall at the end of the runway and his plane cartwheeled down the runway and caught fire. Wondering if this might be the plane since the plane, place, month and year are all the same. Just wondering what you guys think? Thanks DR

That plane is upside down.

Inverted, PROBABLY not survivable.

The plane looks right side up to me- with the tail section broke off. Looks like the superchargers on top and air intake in proper spot under the prop cones as is canopy and nose section. This seems like it would be pretty nasty for the pilot. Rear tail section looks gone as a result of the plane being flipped and nose section is twisted. The canopy appears to be missing so I wonder if it was crushed - would help to see a shot from behind. In any case all this would indicate a pretty severe impact to the top parts of the plane.

Disclaimer here- I got ZERO credentials to jaw about any of this so take it as just a ding dong observation.

What do you think ?

Looks rightside up to me. Canopy covered with sand and hard to see. Survivable ?

Superchargers are on top so at least the wings and engine nacelles are upright. Also appears the canopy is on top. Nose is broken off and lying sideways, as you can see the .50 cals in a diagonal line. Tail appears to be broken and hanging down.

NoCAL

I thought it was upright. Daughter thought it was upside down. Campfire vote is split as well.

FYI Middleburg airfield became operational on 8/17/44. Great Uncle died on 8/25/44. I am sure planes crash landed fairly often in that environment but if the documentation on the picture is correct and I know my date of death is correct along with a first hand eyewitness account, I wonder how many other planes would have crash landed in a 2 week period at that time?

Look at the openings in the front of the engine nacelles below the prop hobs.

Now compare to the picture of the flying aircraft. Same.

Upright.

Looks like he may have come up short on his landing. Middleburg Island is tiny.
https://www.pacificwrecks.com/airfields/indonesia/middleburg/index.html

It's right side up.

An intact aircraft for comparison.




Engine nacelles are below the wing, the four .50 MG's are above the 20mm, you can see the front tire sideways on the left below the nose. Canopy appears to be covered in foam which obsures it. Prop blades are not bent except perhaps the bottom most ones. Whether this was survivable is hard to say. The canopy doesn't look to be crushed but who knows how bad the impact and fire was.

Aug 1944 crash reports

Find it here I bet..

Not at 1st glance. Would be last name Kelly. Middleburg Island, August 25, 1944 P-38

The cockpit is right side up with the nose broken in front of the cockpit. The prop blades aren't bent so I'd say the engines were not operating. Hard to say if this was survivable or not. The impact that broke the airframe was obviously with considerable force.

agreed. might have been a dead-stick landing stall. visible prop blades intact is very relevant, IMHO.

If he was stationed at Middleburg flying P-38s, he was likely in the 67th Fighter Squadron of the 347th Fighter Group. Interestingly, the 67th flew both P-39s and P-38s until May 24th 1944 when they were re-designated from single engine to twin engine.

The only P-38 loss I managed to find on Middleburg was this one:
24309 (347th FG) destroyed in Japanese night raid on base at Middleburg Island, August 1944.

This cat could probably fill in the blanks for you but I have no idea what he would charge. LINKY

There's a forum on WWII aircraft, where you might make inquiries. You'll have to log in, but those guys have all kinds of arcane info that might be helpful. You'll have to log in and go thru the business of getting permissions. They have in "Inquiries" forum, and they can find out stuff, if you're patient. Be patient. It might help if you have your great-uncle's log book with the possible aircraft "vin number" to help them do their thing.

www.ww2aircraft.net

These guys "know stuff", one of the guy's father was a big deal flying Mustangs and other aircraft (wing commander, at that) and some of them have worked restoring warbirds for a flying museum in CA. Interesting place. I READ a lot there, but post very very little. I learn a lot of stuff I don't need to know, and will never use, but it's interesting.

[quote=kenjs1]What do you think ?
[/quote

What I think is that Uncle Sam never flew a better looking airplane.

that's what I thought....stall on short final...relatively low speed....

can't quite tell if props are feathered; possible indicating fuel exhaustion as pilot tried to glide in; stretch it, stalled and plopped down.

Yep, I have pictures of him in P-38, P-39 and P-40s. I am assuming that is the unit he was with. That was the correct time period when he was there.