Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Anyone making 7.62 x 39 upper with a chrome lined barrel?

Tyrone,

The gun and the shooter are two separate variables. When I'm asking about the accuracy of a rifle, yes, I mean from a bench, off a rest of sandbags, not a bipod. Once you've minimized the rifle and ammo as variables, you can start on the real work, and have to own your misses.

I know. I'm messing with you.

My real point is that there is a certain amount of accuracy after which the shooter doesn't really notice any improvement. That amount of accuracy goes in descending order according to stability of position. For instance, most of us can't tell the difference between a 2 MOA gun and a 1/4 MOA gun from Standing. However, we could all see that difference from a machine rest. While we all prefer a 1/2 MOA gun, very few of us can tell the difference between that and a 1 MOA gun shot from our hands.

Hmm... LOL. I never did get to a 10x clean at 300... but I was close more than a few times... now that they allow scopes... wow...

But I know good and well every gun we own has a good chance of being shot from some kind of rest, sometimes a really good rest, and so you can use the accuracy at times.

OTOH the worse you wobble the closer to perfect center each shot needs to be to help you.

You nailed, it.just a hunter and a plinker here.
But, if I miss a clay bird on the berm, I want to know it was me.
If I hit one, I want to think it was me. Not the gun zigging, when I was zagging.

True,

Some of the steadies shot's I've taken were from improvised rests under field conditions.

But every tree, fence post vehicle hood and dead-fall's a potential rifle rest. When I hunt in area's without these opportunities, my rigs wear bipods.

You might call it "cheating", I call it maximizing hit probabilities. Of course, if you're shooting on a known distance range with wind flags, that's a for of "cheating" as well. Each of us plays different games, with different rules, for different purposes. It's good to know what games each is playing so we're not talking cross purposes.

High Power matches sound like a lot of fun, but it also sounds like an expensive rabbit hole.

to NOT take advantage of a good rest seems nuts to me. But I've done fine having to shoot off hand now and then too.

We have a shooter who uses a bipod that shoots against the sling shooters on the HP targets. He shoots about the same in prone as the better sling shooters (~98%), but worse in Sitting and Standing. The bipod shooters tell me he'd be middle of the pack in Fclass.

He does not shoot well enough to tell the difference between a 1/4 MOA gun and a 1 MOA gun and probably not even a 1 1/2 MOA gun.
Sometimes he shoots a gas gun, sometimes a custom bolt action. Makes no difference.

Have seen a lot of shooters like that.

But with a good gun at least one knows what to work on.

I wasn't really calling him a bad shot. Just saying that if you think you are going to grab a 1/2 MOA gun and go out and shoot 1/2 MOA groups off of a bipod or a field expedient rest, you probably won't. Not without a lot of practice.

But as far as practical accuracy goes, what he is doing is more than you need for, say, hunting a worthwhile critter like a deer. If you can keep it on a pie plate, there's not much practical need for better. You could reliably kill a deer out to 600 like that or hit a guy in the noggin.

Sheesh, I really got this one OT.

if my gun shot pie plate at the distance I wanted to shoot a deer at I'd probably puke and forget hunting and start working on the gun. LOL

To add, I have a gun that shoots about 1.5 inches at 100, maybe a hair more, likely if we ever shot 10 shot groups the subsonic stuff wouldn't be better than 2 or so inches actually.

I only use it to 200, but it aggravates me to no end and often being a few inches off of where I"ve aimed really aggravates me, you know I wobble so I know how bad that wobble is, add in the sub par accuracy and it gets worse. LOL.

If I knew that a new barrel would solve it it would be on already... but I have not figured out if thats the problem. Push the bullets a bit faster to super sonic and they shoot really well... Ugh...

Jeff,

Here is my number 1 M1A at work at 1000 yards, 18x24 steel plate, not home to look at data book, but it was north of 7K rounds through a melonited Krieger barrel. It is not about to give up, every now and then I shoot it at our club, it can still tear up the X ring. It is the same M1A that won a couple of LEG matches against black guns.

Watch "TLRS 1,000 YDS - Iron Sights - M1A" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/rKqFfhF1sX4


From Ray Diaz 2 days ago.

"Second 600 I click d right way n shot a 9. Pull another Nez. Shot without sight corrections until that 9. Wanted more Xs. Shot a 199x7 with barrel with 8237rds"

Melonited SS Shilen 8T Ratchet. Looks like the melonited barrel is still going strong, considering Ray is 70+ years old shooter

Pulled another Nez, means often times at Bayou Rifles, like our beloved Bullis, subtle pick up and let off or subtle mirage switch will net you 7 at 3 followed by a 7 at 9, but the actual bracket is often times was less than 10 ring width. Ray and I are mostly just shooting for fun, so I would figure out the wind bracket and adjust for the safe side of the 10 ring and shoot the match without changing wind correction, just let the wind take me across the bracket, and just let the Xs come as the POI is moving across back and forth. But, sometimes I get greedy and would tell Ray that I will shoot an X and get caught for a 9.

Bamban, besides being nitrided, do you think ratchet rifle barrels last longer than conventional rifling?

Really? Honestly IMO, if you can't shoot 1/2 moa groups off a bipod, you need more practice. Including from field positions. It ain't that hard.

Tyrone,

We are not sure yet still collecting data. Within our junior program I chambered over 2 dozens of the ratchet barrels, the 1st 8 were not melonited, and they have been in service for 2 years now. So far we have not seen any degradation in precision at 600. After Perry when the team property manager will collect the data books to get round counts on each barrel amd test them at 600, I will be able to give you some numbers.

Here is another report I just received this morning.



BBB28 continues to hold up well. Don't need anything, this is just for your records.

Shot a 195 yesterday at OKC, with 1st shot being a corner 9, and the additional 4 nine's being standard OKC waterline wind drift.

Attached are photos of the barrel inside. There is some cracking right at the edge of the chamber, which doesn't seem to ever actually matter, I don't think the bullet ever even touches that area (pic 3). The rest of the barrel looks almost new, with no signs of notable erosion or other problems (Pic 4 and 6). The gas port has remarkably little erosion (pic 7), and the crown is very sharp still, almost looks new to me (pic 10).

I also measured the throat erosion, using a Berger 80.5 AOL.

Rounds: OAL:
2213 2.418"
2509 2.420"
2745 2.423"

F Class targets have a 1/2 MOA X ring. I've seen very few 200s shot (1 MOA 10 ring), but so far I haven't seen any 200-20Xs especially not with any ARs. Matter of a fact, I'm not aware of any simple 200s with an AR.

So, in fact, it IS that hard.

I don't think anyone here made 1/2 MOA in the challenge we had a few years ago. Of course that's 2 targets on the same paper with 2 10 shot groups for MOA or less shot from a bi-pod. Feel free to clean house...
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/12164060/1

Nez are you still using the folks over by Brenham? I just got two glock 20 slides back from them, nicely done.

Still would like to have the 458 Win mag completely done for AK but may be running out of time faster than I thought... need to do the 300 mag barrel and wanted a couple new barrels on some of the bolt guns for hunting there, but if all works out I may fly the coop early next spring as soon as traveling is safe. Tired of this local BS...

Jeff

Where you shooting that... I need to bring the AR upper over looks like fun. That target is plenty big to hit, I dunno about seeing though, and especially orange, thats tough on my old eyes.

MAN that looks like FUN FUN FUN. 90 jlks would rule that. LOL

Those round counts on an M1A barrel thats still shooting are impressive as are the AR barrels. Buttoned tubes in the AR have never lasted those numbers for Carolyn and I.

That's the Best of the West at Liberty Hill. It is a seeing game on that 18x24 plate. You heard said about I can't see the target. It is fun indeed.