Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles can a 338 federal...................

be fired in a 338-08 AI in order to fireform the cases?

Maybe

It depends...on the dimensions of the original reamer.

Were it me...wanting to do it...I would do a bunch of measurements first.

Given what I had to pay for a box of Federal ammo for my as-yet-still-being-built .338 Federal -- I'm not sure why I would go to the trouble, though.

The reamer dimensions is the thing.

I'd still probably make some moderate loads with the bullet hard into the lands and see what happens.

Why do I feel that advice like that could get somebody hurt?

Probably not, assuming said person had a grain or two of common sense. Of course "I'd" means ME. I'd first run a primed 338 Federal case, sans powder or bullet, and snap a cap. Plus one can compare a 338-08AI fired case to a 338 federal case.

Sorry for assuming some common sense, my mistake.

One could also tie a string to the trigger and stand behind a deuce and a half. Of course one needs to ensure there are no others at the 'range', and of course no one standing in front of the muzzle.

Wearing a seatbelt on the way to the range would also be advised....

Only real question is headspace -- we know the base and bullet are right. Planting a bullet into the lands, or creating a false shoulder, are the two means of fireforming brass most folks use. In this case, I think a lightish load with a short-bearing-surface bullet touching the lands to hold the base against the bolt face would be sufficient.

Or you could loan it to your brother-in-law with a box of factory ammo and tell him to enjoy himself ...

Sorry if your reply was serious- The "hard into the lands"
part made me think you were joking
I'm a bit nervous about fire forming from 308 cases, so I was looking for an easy way.
What if I just load some 338-08s and let them expand- will that do it?
Again, sorry for misunderstanding

I figger if the chamber ain't quite the same, then headspace will be an issue. If you don't have a "crush" fit, then it will not form correctly, or it might not even go bang if it is in PF action. With the bullet hard in the lands, that will provide the resistance needed to keep the case in place and allow it to form to the chamber.

Of course you are talking about factory ammo, so it is hard to have it 'touch' the lands unless you pull bullets and reseat.

Yep on the 308, but that is assuming a crush fit, if not you'll probably need to seat the bullet into that lands, thus the reason for using a MODERATE load...

Savvy?

OK, the headspace thing finally clicked on the light bulb
Thanks

If the 338 Federal factory loads are too short in the AI chamber, just put them in your inertia bullet puller and give them a couple whacks to move the bullets out enough to make them too long to fit in the chamber. Not enough to pull the bullets completely out, but enough to lengthen the rounds so they will not fit the chamber. Then, using your AI dies, seat them back into the case a little bit at a time, trying them in the gun after each seating, until they will chamber with resistance. This will give you the "crush fit" you are looking for to keep them against the bolt face during fireforming.

I doubt pressure would be an issue with factory 338 Federals in your AI gun. The AI chamber is larger than the factory load which will act to reduce the pressure somewhat. I would fire them. I wouldn't suggest it if I thought it was dangerous. I would be more afraid of fireforming with a greatly reduced load due to the possibility of detonation.

When fireforming 30-06 cases in my CZ 9.3x62 (just couldn't wait for the proper cases to arrive to shoot my new gun) I used the same load for fireforming that I used after fireforming - which was 50 grains of Reloder 15 under the Speer 270 grain bullet. Granted, that is not a particularly full load, but it worked just fine, and the fireform loads were as accurate as the finished product.
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Headspace is not controlled by the dimensions of the chamber reamer. It is controlled by the gunsmith using said reamer. The proper way to headspace any AI cartridge is to cut the chamber so that it is .004� too short for the bolt to close on a �GO� gauge for the parent cartridge. That�s why a barrel set-back is required when you rechamber an existing standard chamber to the AI version. When done in this way you can feel the bolt pick up the case head and close with some resistance when you chamber a standard cartridge in the AI chamber. If you can feel this resistance when closing the bolt on a 338 Federal cartridge, your headspace is correct and you are good to go. If not, then your AI chamber was not cut correctly and you will need to resort to jamming the lands or creating a false shoulder as mentioned above. More information on this can be found in Ackleys Handbooks.

Just a couple of things. First, check an empty case in the AI chamber. If it doesn't touch solidly on the juncture of the neck and shoulder, the chamber is too deep to fireform with factory brass or loads. The neck up to 358 then back down is probably best. Second, don't load moderate or "lightish" loads to fireform. Fireforming loads are best if on the snappy side using powders on the quicker side of the chart. Fireforming with moderate loads almost garantees you will end up with brass which is too short and you will have created a headspace problem. This is a common mistake and is, for some reason, perpetuated by many. GD

Why improve the .338 "Federal?"

Why not just shoot a .338-06 instead? Or shoot a "stock" .358 Winnie if you need more performance than a .338 Federal will give? At least the .358W shoots a larger diameter bullet.

Many years ago the gun writer, Ken Waters wrote his mointhly column about the .338-08. Called it a "cartridge of merit," but did NOT recommend that people rush out and get one. Instead he praised the .338/06, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Rem Mag and 9.3 X 62 Mauser for rounds in this class.

At least if you need more performance on a short-action than the .338 Federal or .358 Winnie will give, you could go with the .350 Remington Magnum (equivalent to a .35 Whelen) and still have a factory, non-wildcat round.

I'm thinking the original poster has a .338-08 AI that was built before the .338 Federal came about. And I'm thinking that the original poster is wondering, "Can I go the simple route and create my brass by shooting factory .338 Federals in my rifle. Further, I'm thinking we have waayyy complicated a fairly simple answer...

MuleDeer nailed it. I'm not fond of AIs but I got a deal on this one.
As too the 338-06, I have two in the safe, as well as a pair of 338 WMs and a 338-378....Along with a few others.
I'm not short in the power department, as to brain power.... maybe lacking a bit

Amen to that!

Mark D

Seems like you could just measure each case to the datum line and get your answer.

I thought I remember seeing a post on here sometime ago regarding case dimensions. With the cost of factory ammo these days, I don't think using factory ammo to fireform would be cost effective though. I think in varmint rounds since they are sold in bulk packs it is, but something like a box of 338 Federal would probably run you $35 these days.

Tracks,

If you have the other rifles you mentioned and want to add the new .338 "shortie" to the lineup, what about seeing (with your favorite smith) if there's enough steel in the barrel to set it back 1/4 - 1/2 inches and recut the chamber to .338 Federal? I've got nothing against wildecats if a fellow really "wants one," but what a pain in the butt if a fellow doesn't particularly want one and gets handed one? Just a couple thoughts.

if you are 338 fan, take a look at the 338 O'Connor(338x57)