Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles What is bullet failure?????

That is a rather circular piece of logic. What you're saying is that it always falls back on the shooter's poor choice of bullet. Well, if the manufacturer would say to me "yeah, this bullet is pretty much rubbish really, don't choose it" then fair call. But if the manufacturer says that the bullet suits what I want to do, and I find that in practice that it won't, then is that still my fault, or theirs? And if a new design comes out, how are you going to know how it will work?

The admittedly fairly few bullets I've seen which really didn't work, didn't do what should have been expected of them. If you have a big game bullet rated to perform at an impact velocity down to, say, 1900 fps, and it simply isn't expanding on game even at velocities comfortably above that, or one rated for varmints up to 50 lbs which splatters without penetrating or killing varmints weighing less than that, then whose fault is it?

Of course, once you've found that a bullet really isn't up to the mark then, sure, you'd be pretty silly to keep using it. Conversely, once you've found one which works well you'd be well advised to lay in a supply of them (which is what I do).

Think the only one I experienced was a locally manufactured mono that broke up after it left the barrel of a 30-06. The animal had 3 entrance holes but not where I intended it to hit. I was amazed that the pieces of copper hit the animal. Took an hour of tracking to get the animal. Never thought a mono would break up as a result of spin but there had to be some issue with the constuction of that bullet. If I had mobile reception I would have phoned the manufacturer just before I started tracking.

I’m not sure if it was bullet failure but I recovered a 140gr .284 TTSX like Chet mentioned, almost looked like I could reload it. It was missing the tip and just slightly bent. It was a head shot on a deer and was recovered from the brain cavity. I don’t think it was necessarily bullet failure but rather a case of not being used in its performance range, but sometimes in Hunting situations you use what you got. In this particular case it was a follow up shot at over 700yds out of a 280rem, I don’t think the bullet was traveling at optimum speed.

On a separate occasion I had shot a buck in the front shoulder on a quartering towards me shot with a 165gr TTSX out of a 300wsm at 400yds. The deer dropped dead or so I thought, then 5 or 10 minutes later got up and hobbled away. After tracking it for 2 days it was obvious there was no exit wound, all the blood was coming from the left shoulder. I never did recover that deer but it was the last time I’ve used a mono metal bullet.

I think for the most part that bullet failure is a result of driver error. In most cases it says right on the box what the velocity is for proper bullet performance, when used outside of that there are no gurantee’s. I’ve had good luck shooting Nosler bullets, ballistic tips, partitions, and accubond have all worked well for me with no bad experiences to date.

Makes sense to me.

You're being too kind. Calling that post "logic".

The only bullets failures I have had was one 155 grain bullet which appeared to have the jacket separate right at the boatail/shank juncture. It did hit the target, twice(!) but both holes were eight inches away from the group and a foot apart from each other. The other failure was a Speer TNT which failed to make it to it's intended target (a ground squirrel) and blew up about twenty yards out. In fairness, Speer cautioned not to try and drive them too fast and I did.

My own definitions:

Varmint bullet that don't break up and shed at least 80% of their weight are failures. Their mission is either to obliterate a small animal, or in some cases to kill a fur-bearer with no exit to sew up.

Big game bullet used for game of 200 pounds or less are failures if they don't hold 45% of their weight or more. The Mission is to kill by destroying the vitals and to give an exit.

Big game bullet used for game of 200 pounds or more are failures is they don't hold 65% of their weight or more. Again the Mission is to kill by destroying the vitals and to give an exit

Solids that don't hold 97% of their weight or more are failures. it's mission is to penetrate in a straight line as deep and as straght as possible.

Will failing bullet kill?
Sure. They have done it for many many many years. Millions of times.

So why use better bullets?
Because they work better. The issue is not what a bullet does when all the circumstances are perfect, but what it does when they are a bit less then perfect.

You can haul a ton of bricks in a Crown Vic or even a Honda Civic and all the bricks will get moved. But a better tool would be a 3/4 ton pick-up.
A so-so deer bullet will kill a moose, just like the Civic will haul the bricks, but because the Civic will haul the bricks and because the so-so bullet will kill the moose is NOT any kind of proof that it's the best tool for the job.

So the argument that X has worked many times for many years is factual, but doesn't have any basis to say it's just as good as Y.
It becomes very glaring when tool X is not as good as tool Y and yet it cost the same amount and in the case of many bullets Y often costs more.

When discussing the "best choice" for anything, the focus of that debate is the question "What will work BEST," not just "what will work".

All bullet can kill. Elephants have been killed with 22 LRs. And yes you can haul a ton of brick in a Civic, or even a bicycle.

But that is missing the point and focus of the initial question.

"Best"!

This .224" 62 grain TSX was dug out of a mule deer, shot at about 80 yards.
It wasn't launched at warp speed, but it wasn't out of a .22 Hornet either.





Thoughts?

I've seen a lot claiming the issues with the Hornady ammo. The flip side is so many want to have an actual firearm other than a shotgun or muzzleloader in that zone, they think they now have a 300+ yard cartridge so those longer shots aren't helping either.

I'd consider that a legitimate failure. Reading through this thread I was thinking "X bullet" and my experience with them, similar to what you showed. Another that's given me similar experiences is the old Combined Technology "Fail Safe" bullet, that was sort of a hybrid cross of a Barnes X and a Partition. Sometimes they worked, and sometimes they didn't.




I'll say that most hunters don't know enough to accurately say if their bullet failed or not, especially those who don't dress and butcher their own animals, as mentioned above. Of course, it's often the less knowledgeable people who are the loudest about this sort of thing.

Last year my grandson and I came across a buck antelope that was wounded earlier in the day by a hunting companion. He shot it with a factory Federal fusion from a 270 Win. My grandson tracked it down and finished it off with a 30-30. Upon gutting it out the 270 bullet was found. It had zero expansion and could be reloaded and shot again. Range of the wounding shot was approx. 300 yards. I would classify that a bullet failure.

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Yup, so would I.
I guess I should add that on big game bullets the weights I posted earlier were assuming expansion. NO expansion is not good either.


But having killed REAL BIG animals with solids I can say if I HAD to choose between a solid non-expanding bullet or one that comes apart 80% (or more) I'd take the solid every time.

Solids don't kill as quickly as good soft points in my experience, but they do kill reliably if the vitals are hit, be it elk, deer or sheep, and also for elephant, cape buffalo, hippo, kudu and wildebeest.

A buddy had the same thing happen with a 168 grain TTSX shot from a .308, looked almost new except for the rifling marks and missing tip. Luckily for him, he shot the bull in the heart with it.

He clocked it later, MV was around 2650, too slow for monos IMHO. So not really bullet failure.

I always assume the bullet went where it was intended. That leaves two varieties of failures ... bullets that are supposed to expand but don't and bullets that are supposed to hang together and penetrate but don't. If you flub the shot or take one beyond your accuracy limit, that's your failure, not the bullet's.

Tom

It is more a matter of the bullet not meeting the shooter's expectations. There is no such thing as a magic bullet.
I shoot bullets that a lot of people on the internet knock but they have always done what I expected them to do.
If I ever flub a shot I can always claim bullet failure and the sages on the internet will nod their agreement.
You gotta leave yourself an out.

That's exactly why I've started shooting Sierra Game Changers at 10-15fps over the minimum bullet impact velocities the Sierra tech told me.

David

Did these bullets fail?

Yep, it failed; it didn’t track straight😊

Jud kissed a goat and he liked it. LOL.

You should neck a 50 bmg to 243.