Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns You only need a 1911A1 .45. Throw the rest away

Never owned a Jam-O-Matic, I do however have a few nice unstoppable 1911's!

Dennis,

I have a 8-shot 627 5" on which I've installed CTC laser grips. This is my night house gun along with the 12 gauge pump.

I've owned a number of S&W revolvers and 1911s of various makers. I've had jams with all. But in recent years I've had no problems with S&W revolvers at all.

I have, however, had jams with expensive Kimbers as well as other types of 1911. I believe 1911s can be made reliable but out of the box you'd better shoot a couple hundred rounds of the ammo you are going to carry to be sure.

However, my current Kimbers are stellar performers with all types of ammo.
I carry the new CorBon PowRBall ammo with its round nose it should be super reliable.

The biggest problem is the internal extractor which must be polished and tuned by a person who knows how to make the gun reliable.

I won't even go into the problems I had with a pair of ParaOrdnance 1911s that soon found other owners.

My comments came from shooting IDPA for several years. There was never a match I shot in in which a 1911 didn't jam up. There was never a match in which a SIG or a Glock or a revolver did jam up. Dennis

Dennis, accuracy tuned 1911s do tend to have reliability problems, but that's because accuracy is the priority, so tolerances are very close. It is also true that these days many manufacturors are using cheaper steels in their extractors, and not taking the time to propertly tune them at the factory, so often the extractor needs tuning right out of the box. It is also true that any given 1911 is generally going to work best with one weight and design of bullet. Unlike a revolver, an auto prefers some ammo over others. A properly made, set up and maintained 1911, however, is as reliable with its preferred ammo as any revolver. These days, however, you need to spend fairly big bucks to be sure to get one that's made right and tuned right, out of the box. That done, however, you have a weapon that is superior to anything else for concealed carry/combat.

Right on Buzz,

I have several (at least 6) 1911's from Colt and Para-Ord. I have several (at least 6) Glocks. I carried 1911's for well over a decade shooting I don't know how many rounds weekly. St that point in time I have many more 1911's including ones in 10mm.

Once I found the Glock 30 I never looked back. Oh sure, I get new toys every now and then (picked up a Sig 229 in .357 sig about a year ago), but the G30 is what I carry by choice. I often drop down to a Keltec K40 40 S&W when concealability is an issue.

The Glock just shoots where I point it. It's uncanny. Sure, I use the sights but as y'all know it is a lot quicker to get off the first shot when the sights are already line up.

As far as caliber, In an ideal world I would pick the 10mm. Howver, in this world where ammo price and availability is an issue, I pick the .45 acp. I know, theoretically we should all be shooting the .357 sig, more ammo in a smaller package with ballistics better than a .357 magnum. Theoretically, that is. You just can't argue with 90+ years of experience and testimonials by many great shooters.

I think that the reliability of making a big hole / getting a good hit is higher with the big bullet. Temporary wound cavities really don't count for much in my book, it's the permanent wound cavities that kill, the broken bones that stop the quickest.

JMHO <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Offered in all sincerity - If you take the time to learn to shoot and you're a civilian, not military and not LEO, then this thread should have been called, "All you really need is a S&W K-Frame revolver, but keep all the rest cause they're Fun to shoot." Dennis

Dennis, as Jeff Cooper says, the double action revolver is the perfect self defense tool for the person who is not into guns and will not spend much time mastering their weapon. That is not to say, however, that a well trained person cannot make exceptional use of a double action revolver for self defense, just that his full potential is much better served with a 1911 .45.

Hawkeye: Like you I've probably read and enjoyed most of Jeff's columns and articles for many years. I never shoot less than 2 days/week. I've competed in IDPA and enjoyed it. None of this means I'm a hot shot or a hot dog with a handgun. In well over several hundred accounts (perhaps more) of civilian shootings I've read I recall few if any where the individual had to reload. Whether armed with a 1911 (which I actually do like and respect as a good choice) or a K-Frame I can't draw from concealment and shoot fast enough to get the first shot off if some fool is already covering me with his/her gun. If the idiot's gun isn't already pointed at me then with either a 1911 or a K-Frame if I don't lose my cool I've got a decent chance at drawing, and if need be firing and hitting him before he can do likewise to me. I think that it will make little difference whether I hit him with a well placed .357 Magnum JHP from a K-Frame or a .45 ACP JHP. I typically carry a SIG 245 or a S&W Model 66. I know how to use both of 'em. I don't feel undergunned. If I run into an outlaw gang of killers who are after my hide, I'm probably in deep [bleep] no matter which handgun I choose. Regards, Dennis

I have to ring in on the side of the 45 ACP. Stopping power is better than with faster lighter bullets. I don't care if the bullet is leathel, as long as the BG is knocked down immediately. I recall a shooting in So Cal in which a suspect was hit 17 times with .38 and 9mm ball rounds. He of course died but it was almost 20 minutes from the time he was first struck. I want to put a suspect down with the first shot. And yes, I know that one can achieve a one shot kill with a light bullet. Many pros use a 22 and I lost a partner to a 25ACP. Still, in the long run a larger diameter is more effective.

One must also consider what happens to a missed shot. A 357 will travel farther, thus possibly hitting an uninted target than a 45. Don't get me wrong, I carried a S&W Model 19 4" when autos were not allowed. It is a great weapon, but in an urban environment I would stick to the 45.

Big, Slow, and Ugly will always prevail over light and fast. That's why I use big-bore leverguns for hunting. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

And just to stir the pot a little, for home defense isin't a light shotgun load the better choice?

LeverMan
Life is too short to use anything but a LeverGun!

Leverman, you make some good points. Not only that, however, but you are more likely to hit your target with a .45 than with a .357 Magnum, especially on the second quick follow up shot.

Let me set the record straight, though. I have nothing against the double action revolver. I have and enjoy many Smith and Wesson and Colt revolvers, and a few of them are K frame .357 Mangums. I love the guns, and since I spent many years shooting hundreds of rounds per week developing the skills needed to shoot them well and fast, I would feel very well armed with one, but I don't carry one because I carry IWB, and it's just not a comfortable carry with a revolver. The 1911 is also quicker to the target from the draw, and quicker and more accurate on the follow up shot, in my opinion.

Throw the rest away ? are you stoned ? You drug test now !

LD, it's for effect. What I mean is that you don't need the others, as the 1911 is the best. Naturally, you should sell all of your other handguns instead of actually throwing them away. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Probably against the law to do that anyway.

It can be beat the Sig 229 or 239 or the Glock in .357 Sig calibers are proof of that and the .357 Sig stomps all over the .45ACP in terms of muzzle energy and hold more rounds to boot

Logansdad, get over it. The .45acp is the King of Combat. Period. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Not to be a pest but the .45 ACP never has been the King of Combat around the world, or among US LEO's and hasn't been King in the US Armed Forces for several decades It has however been King for many who are top players in gun game competitions. Dennis

Dennis, when the professionals in the military or law enforcement, who are most likely to see a gunfight, pick a sidearm it is more often than not a 1911 .45 ACP. It has become almost standard for SWAT and hostage rescue teams. Why? Because when they need to stop someone from shooting back, they need to stop them NOW. The 1911 in .45 ACP is the best way to do that. Other designs were created primarily to increase safety in the hands of the minimally trained. Many would argue that they failed in that, but did manage to make a weapon which is less combat effective than the 1911 .45. When those who have the highest training are issued a side arm, it is very often the 1911 .45.

It's interesting that the majority of SEALS today are chosing the SIG P226 9mm over their other permitted choice, the SOCOM Mk 23 .45 ACP. Also intersting that both the Masters and Expert class trophies in the Custom Defensive Pistol Division (usually thought of as the SA '1911' .45 ACP Division) at the 2003 IDPA Winter Championships were won by 2 guys shooting SIG P220STs. The 1911 in .45 ACP used to be one of the few good choices, now it is one of many good choices! Regards, Dennis

You may find it "interesting," but I stand by what I said.

Hawkeye: May our handguns of choice continue to provide each of us with much pleasure and protection! Dennis

Indeed.