Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Colorado Weighted Preference Points

Question for the Fire and especially Colorado big 3 (Sheep, Goat, Moose) hunters:

With the changes to the Colorado draw fees in 2019 is it / will it be worth it to pay the $50 (resident) / $100 (non-resident) fee for a weighted preference point going forward? What I read from the CPW meeting was: “Adding an opt-out option for the preference point fee for moose, Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep, and mountain goat applicants, allowing applicants to choose whether they want to pay to receive a preference point/weighted preference point per application.” What I’m understanding from that is an applicant can still apply for a tag and pay the increased application fee but would not automatically be forced to pay the point fee of $50 or $100. So, with the minimal “value” of weighted points (since the real luck in the draw is how your application number is randomized) is it worth it to buy any number of years’ worth of weighted points? I have a pile of weighted points already and every year applicants with fewer weighted points draw the tags. I fully understand the draw process for these species, but the rules of the game are changing. When the weighted point just cost the $3 application fee that was the only consolation prize for not drawing. Now that it’s going to cost something I don’t know if there is that much value. Not trying to start another discussion about the CPW just about the part I can control. Is there a point of diminishing returns or are more weighted points always better? What says the Fire on this?

I'll be curious if you are interpreting that correctly. I have my doubts that it will be an option to opt out of paying the $50. If they do let you opt out, then your gut of not paying it would be what I would suggest. Like you said, it is random and you already have a bunch of points.

No one has more moose points than I do. I been applying since day one.Weighted points are really just a random draw the way they do it. I've seen a lot of people draw who don't have near the number of points I have draw licenses. Good for them, but what this looks like is the full employment act for the CPW IT department to keep track of all of this. I think I'd have just as good a chance if they just put us into one big goldfish bowl and drew us at random and forget all the points. It's kinda that way any way, they take a random number and divide my points into it and that's where I sit in the lottery. That random number is in effect a random drawing.
I won't pay for additional points, I'll just stay with what I have, I don't think more points will really help me that much anyway. There is a point of diminishing returns, you need enough points to get into the game, but after that I don't think more will really help all that much. I'm at the mercy of that random number no matter how many points I have. So I'll just sit where I am. I do really feel for you non-resident guys. You have got to pay for a small game license to even apply ($80) and then more for a point ($50?) and if you don't draw you're out the $130 and sitting on a license that most of you will never have an opportunity to use since you didn't draw. I guess the upside for me is all these new money schemes may shrink the pool of applicants I'm in competition with.

I havn't heard if the commission made the opt out an option yet. I think they were to bring it up in their January meeting.

It's your decision. You have to pay the fiddler if you want to dance.

For me if I was younger I would pay for the sheep point. Maybe the mtn goat. Not the moose.

I've drawn 3 bighorn sheep tags, I started applying back in the early 90's. Killed my ram in 98. Had to sit out for 5 years and drew another after that. I put in for a unit that's not popular. It's over here on the western slope. I drew a tag about 10 years and have not applied since. I then started to apply for desert bighorn and have not drawn yet.

Mtn goat it took me 17 years to draw. I had 3 point and they didn't give weighted points then. I drew in 02. I killed a billy in Unit 13.

Moose I've applied since day 1 never have drawn. I'm thinking of putting in for a cow tag and use the points this year. I'm not paying the $50 point fee.

Bob

I had 16 moose points. The other guy that was hunting close to me drew with 7 points.I stopped chasing points after that.

With the new pref. points on sheep, goat and moose, it is going to cost more for the points than the actual tag cost before a person draws

Wife n I each put in for 4 years and could not draw a deer tag..Heard it takes 6 or 7... Hell with it..I'm not paying these greedy suckers for nothing...Better to go to Africa every 5 years....

saddlesore,

I had 3 pref, plus 12 weighted pref points for moose, before I drew. I chose a muzzleloader season. At this stage of my life, I am no longer accumulating pref points, or WPP's, for anything, except for Turkey, to be used on my farm in the fall. I can usually draw tags for whitetail deer with no pref points, anyway. I'm going to burn my last pref points this coming year on a cow elk RFW tag. The new DPW system of not charging for tags unless or until drawn has totally changed the game here in CO, for all of us, especially for those starting from scratch.

From now on, I'll just take my chances on a statewide tag by buying lottery tickets.

Need to read up on Colorado's system. Do they just toss your name in the pot more often or what? I.e with 5 points that might raise ones odds from say 1 in 500 to 5 in 500. Whoopee do! Still minimal chance of a draw, and I'd not pay $$$ into that method.

With Oregon's system, 75% of the tags go to the highest point holders. Then there is a totally random draw (no point consideration) for the remaining 25%. Even with zero points, one always has a chance. Highest point holders will score though. Sadly, we do not do points for sheep and goats as I've attempted every year since 1975. We do for elk, pronghorn, deer, and spring bear.

For elk, deer, antelope and bear. You are put in a pool with the same number of points. When they draw they go to the highest preference pool and draw there 1st. After that is empty they move to the next highest preference pool and draw there. Empty that and move down until they run out of tags or applicants.

If you want to know about bighorn sheep, moose and mtn goat--I can explain that also. It's a little more complicated.

No points for desert bighorn---it's a straight draw.

I believe the opt out was made official during the commission meeting this month. So while I could see if you had a lot of points you might not want to continue paying, but you’ll kick yourself when everyone else catches up with you. With the supply vs demand issues for sheep, goat and moose, there’s a very real possibility of never drawing in your lifetime. I think in my household I’ll continue to apply and accumulate points but my wife is a good example of what was trying to be weeded out. She doesn’t care that much about these three and only put in last year because it was $9 for all three. Will probably go back to ignoring them again this year.

Good god...... totally irrelevant.

Gentlemen, thank you for your salient responses. Here's where I’m at on this today:

I’ve been contemplating not only my personal response to these changes but the response for my young hunters as well. I recently relocated a short 30 miles, but my state of residence has changed (guess I better update my profile), so I’m approaching this as a non-resident for the first time. For me I’ll keep playing the game with the weighted points I have but will not put an extra couple hundred a year into a mostly worthless Weighted Points bucket. If I purchase any weighted points at all I’ll rotate between moose and goat every other year. To Exbiologist’s point everyone else will only catch up half as fast that way (thanks for the perspective). Despite my desires, I suspect, any hope second Colorado RMBH tag is going to be out or the cards because I’m still on my time out and starting over doesn’t seem feasible. I’ll will just keep playing the long odds on the DBHS. If I was still a resident, I think the extra $50 a year would probably be worth it to me to stay at the top for moose and goat.

Here’s the disappointing part:
After doing the math I think there are better ways to serve my kids than to “invest” them into this draw system. Let’s just say draw odds or prices don’t change (not going to happen), and the time horizon to draw a tag for one of the big three is 15 years (not going to happen). A resident would pay $1,725 for all the application fees + yearly license + habitat stamp + tag and a non-resident would pay $5,195 for the same tag per species. If a non-resident applied for all 3 that’s about $12,885 after 15 years assuming the tags were all drawn on at an average of 15 years, and there is no guarantee of drawing. For that money we could, and will, do a moose hunt in Canada, Ibex in Kazakhstan, plains game safari or whatever they want to hunt. No doubt my kids will grow up hunting waterfowl, deer, pronghorn and elk but I’m not going to feed then the expectation that they will likely ever hunt the big 3 in CO like dad did. As a CO native I’m a little disappointed my children will likely never enjoy some of the experiences I’ve had, but those were my dreams for them. The residency change was my choice and there are new opportunities just a different system to learn. I fear long term hunter recruitment in CO will suffer if these trends continue. There are other states within driving distance that offer similar opportunities without this level of investment. At least there's a few months left to contemplate my choices. Good luck!

I know a young man who has drawn both a sheep and moose tag while he is only 15-16 years old. Granted these tags were on a ewe and cow, but still, this young man was able to pull both of these tags before being able to vote.

I won't hinder my children from being able to live a dream and hunt one of the Big 3. Should they want to hunt these species, I'm looking at $150/yr for them to acquire points. I've pissed off a lot of $150 bills in my life and can live with the fact that they just might draw a tag while I'm still alive. I've willing to pay that cost to see the excitement in their eyes.

I drew a bighorn tag in 2018. In 2016, my buddy drew both his moose and bighorn tag, and drew his goat tag in 2014. It can and does happen.

It positively is an expensive game, but a game we are willing to play.

Good luck!!!

The draft big game brochure that I just saw says there is no preference point fee for youth.

exbiologist,
Thank you! I hadn't seen that caveat yet. If that's the case there's no reason not to apply the kids as long as they qualify as youth's. That would give them 5 years (ages 12-17) to build up enough points to be in the draw and a couple weighted points extra. By that time they can make a better educated decision if they want to continue applying for those species. You just made my day!

I'm 60 with 0 weighted points. Its looking like if I'm going to hunt any kind of a moose its going to be on a landowner tag in Utah.

I have 18 total points for each of the big 3 as a resident. Theres no guarantee that any of us will ever draw any of the big 3 the way the drawing process is. Just FYI.

CPW is currently seeking input from the public on the 5 year season structure and one of the questions they are asking is if folks would like to see a 2nd rifle moose season added to the structure. The CPW guy that was at the meeting in Colorado Springs indicated that some GMUs have enough moose to support this. If approved, this would offer additional draw potential for moose, at least as long as there are animal numbers to sustain that. Meaning that more hunters may get drawn per year. Also specific to moose, they are looking at letting hunters choose the method of take (season) once they are drawn for a tag. None of this is final, but is being considered. You can provide input on the CPW website.