Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Loading 120 gr cast at max in the 327

Title pretty much says it all. And dependable data is still a bit hard to find for this cartridge.

I am getting set to start shooting the Henry carbine in 327 with powder coated 120 gr cast. Maybe small game, ground squirrels, paper, and four inch steel plates.

First plan is to start with 12 gr of H110/W296 and work toward 12.5 gr.

I also have Titegroup, SR4756, Universal, HS-6, Unique, and Blue Dot in the cabinet, But they are not well suited for the pressure/velocity profile I am looking at this time.

I have heard good things about L'il Gun and 2400. But I have not worked with either.
Will either one do anything that H110 won't do in this application?

Hello Shooter, not sure of the strength of your Henry carbine or if your 120 gr bullet is gas checked but I'm using more H110 in my 8 shot Blackhawk than 12 grs with my 135 gr Ferminator bullet & a standard primer. Good luck in your testing. Was over your way last week to the girls state BB tournaments. Our girls won it all, that makes 53 straight! Small hi-jack!

Dick

We are loading 120 and 132 grain cast in our 327s. We tried 2400, H110, Blue Dot, and even AA1680 (plus others that I forgotten). They all shot okay but none were as good as AA9. It has provided the best accuracy as well as the best velocity without pressure signs. We use it exclusively now for heavier loads in the 327.

Brian Pearce had an article on the .327 single-seven revolvers in Handloader #294, Feb. 2015. He doesn't show any loads for a 120 grain, the closest bullet with H110 is the 115gr. Speer GDHP, a jacketed bullet, for which he shows 13.5 grains as max, at 1257fps from a 7.5" barrel. The closest load with 2400 is a 113 Cast Performance, 10.5gr. at 1324. For 115 Rim Rock RNFP w/GC he has 12.0 AA(, 1482fps, and the 130 Rim Rock SWC fastest load is 10.7/AA9 at 1424fps. I know this isn't what you asked for, but perhaps it might give you some insight. Hope it helps.

Since he mentioned powder coated bullets (I recall you coat yours too), in my experience with that carbine he probably won't need a gas check at all. I've gone to only using gas checks on my coated bullets for revolvers (for the cylinder gap) and gas-operated semi-autos (for the barrel gas port). Everything else in my experience seems to handle coated plain base bullets fine without checks, even up to about 3,000 fps.

Dick, congratulate those girls for me. That record is very impressive.

My 16 YO granddaughter is pitching Varsity softball as a Sophomore. The team won Id state champ last year undefeated, with a Senior pitcher. Sis has some big shoes to fill.

I have two single sevens, and an SP101 in 327. I had to back down to 12.5 gr H110 in the revolvers due to sticky chambers. No gas checks. Hoping they will not be needed with powder coating.

Saleen, Thanks. I have read great things about AA9 with 100 gr bullets. I will see if I can find some locally.

Dale, Yes, I have read and reread Brian's article, as well as anything else I can google. If I can make 1400 fps in the 4 5/8 inch S seven, that should put me to 1700 or better in the carbine. That will kill any rabbit or fox I can get the sights on.


Thanks a bunch gentlemen.

Idaho Shooter, good luck to your grand daughter! We have so much snow over here the girls have to use an orange colored ball to even see it.

Yondering, isn't it amazing what powder coated bullets have brought to the table for all of us. I don't own a rifle other than an AR, just because.... but running those PC bullets up to 3,000 fps is amazing. And shooting many of them without gas checks has always been hit or miss in the past, sounds like that has even changed now.

Dick

Yes, I fully agree, it certainly changed a lot for me with cast bullets. I came up with the shake and bake coating method one evening back in 2013, and pretty much switched everything to coated bullets immediately and haven't looked back. It really revolutionized how I treat cast bullets and what I can do with them, in my own experiences at least.

You folks are making me feel good about the future. I am waiting on a pound of paint from powder buy the pound, and I just picked up a little toaster oven this weekend.

I ran 500 of the 120s through the sizer die last night, and am anxious to get them shaked, baked, loaded, and shot. But I still have hundreds and hundreds of various weights in 41 and 32 already lubed and sized, and waiting to be loaded for the revolvers.

If this project works as I expect, I will probably be using the rest of my lubes as candle fuel.

Make sure to get some sort of thermometer too, even a cheap $5 oven thermometer is adequate. It'll save you a lot of frustration; don't trust the temperature knob on the toaster oven.

Yeah, I've got a bunch of bullet lube sitting around doing nothing as well. I should probably send it off to somebody who still lubes bullets...

Thanks, that is a great suggestion. I had thought about an oven thermometer, but had forgotten it.

You'd remember after finding your bullets slumped over or melted into a puddle. I've never done that. Of course not...

Honestly though I'm not sure how specific the temp and time requirements for powder coating are, so I try to hit the correct temp listed for that particular powder. (Usually 400 F, some are 350 or 375). I do know that at the correct temperature, you can bake them quite a bit longer than the specified 10 min with no ill effects. Accidentally baked a batch for 2-3 hours once because I forgot and went upstairs to watch a movie. They were fine. I normally bake for 20 min, with the idea that the bullets should be up to 400 F within the first 10 min, then they'll have the specified 10 min at temp to cure; that method seems pretty successful and gives me time to size the previous batch while the next one is baking.

Thanks for the advice.

I am planning to size them first and then coat them. I use the RCBS lubrisizor, just don't screw the handle down on the lube cylinder. They come out right at .312", I am hoping for .313" after powder coat??

I sized 500 of the 120s a couple nights ago, and cast another 500 last night. With another ten pounds of lead left in the pot from my original homogeneous 100 lb batch. That ought to keep me and several grandkids busy for a while.

I strongly recommend sizing after coating. There's no advantage to sizing before, and it leaves you open to the possibility of inconsistencies and flat spots in the coating that would otherwise get uniformed by the sizing die. It's a lot like paper patching in that regard - sizing afterwards is advantageous to creating a rounder and more consistent final product. There's also no need to guess about the final diameter after coating, if you size after.

If I was set on sizing before, I'd just skip sizing altogether and shoot them as cast and coated. (I have done that some too, it works OK with the right mold.)

A Lee push through sizing die will speed up your sizing process at least double, with less work. I do suggest buying a die that's .001" smaller, if possible, and polishing it out, but it's worth it. My lubrisizers sit idle now, except for odd jobs where I'm experimenting with forming noses. The Lee push through dies just do a better job all around; they size straighter as well as being faster.

Also, you really don't want to size first in a die that had bullet lube in it, and then try to get powder coating to stick to the bullets. That's counterproductive and I wouldn't be surprised if you have trouble with the coating on that batch. Just coat them directly out of the mold and save yourself the hassle.

I agree, no reason to size first, just do it after coating & have the uniform bullet you are looking for. You'll end up fighting accuracy if you don't..

Dick

Okay, appreciate the advice. I was considering an acetone wash on the 500 I already sized. That will be a for sure thing now.

That Lee sizer has been looking very attractive.

Ha Ha, back to the drawing board, sort of.

Put the thermometer in the oven and set the temp at 400, Thermo said 350. So raised the thermostat to 450, and the thermo set right on 400 degrees for about thirty minutes, while I shook up 100 bullets and set them all up on the tray.

I set a timer for 40 minutes and sat down for a break. When I pulled the bullets out of the oven, they were slumped. Darn.

Not a lot of harm done. It is just lead. It is in the pot melting down again.

Weird. Bad thermometer, or were your bullets sitting higher in the oven than the thermometer? Sometimes those little ovens are a lot hotter near the top, especially if you're using the upper burner (I don't, I use the bake setting which is just the bottom burner in mine). I have to set my oven at 500F to get it to actually do 400F.

As you know, cast bullets don't slump at 400*, so it must have been way hotter for some reason. Hope you get it figured out.

Any chance you have a PID control setup for a casting pot, or a simple thermocouple reader? If so, you could stick the thermocouple in the oven with the bullets to figure out the temp.

I think the thermostat is a little wonky in the oven. It is a (who knows how old) Black and Decker. I pulled the bullets out, put the thermometer back in and it read just a bit north of 450. The broiler unit is not on. Just the bottom element.

So I spent some more time messing with the thermostat and the thermometer. 400 degrees on the thermostat gives 350 in the oven every time. But I got her to settle down at 400 degrees with a setting of 410. It held there well for about 45 minutes.

So I put another batch of bullets in, about 250 of them. When I pulled them out, three had slumped a bit. But the rest looked good. I ran that batch of 250 bullets through the sizer and they are set to load. Then I discovered a broken decapping pin on my sizing die. I have spares in both, large and small. But none with a flat base on the bottom.

Getting the first batch loaded and shot will have to wait until I can get to town again.

The coating looks great, glossy and solid. And it still looks good after sizing.

Going to have to go to the "Big City" to find AA9 or 2400. I think I will avoid L'il Gun, lots of stories about flame cuttng from it.

12.5 gr H110 behind my powder coated 120 gr Accurate cast bullet, left the cartridges just a little sticky in the chambers of the SP101. This compares with 12,8 gr H110 with the 115 gold dot, which I have shot for several years.

!2.3 gr H110 shoots well from the SP 101 and from the single seven. They cycle through the action of the Henry carbine, as long as you operate the lever "smartly". The flat point cast and the 115 gold dots each hang up in the feed mechanism of the carbine if you baby it. But they chamber fine with a swift stroke of the lever.

I need a day to take the Henry apart and Duracoat the exterior as well as UBC the bore. Then I will set up the Chrono and clock the load in all three weapons.