Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire police departments dropping .40 S&W?

What is also very tempting to many agencies is that firearms companies make very appealing deals for caliber switch overs. The only real problem, if want to call it one is the return of purchased ammo and the repurchase of the new ammo cal. The feds had problems with recruits failing the firearms portion of the their academy. So there is an admin issue that was bothering them. They killed two birds with one stone, new gun, new caliber, higher success rates in quals and recruits grad rates. Last , less recruits in firearms remediation which eats up training time! Time will tell if the caliber/ ammo are as good as they are in jello. Holes in meat on the street are results in my book. But... a hand gun is small hammer, big nail scenario, Handguns are the weak sister to a rifle, in most, if not all engagements.

When I got my CCW license a few years ago, i researched (on the Internet) results from 9mm, .40, and .45 ACP. The FBI had designed a test involving pentrateing glass plus heavy clothing plus so much gelatin IIRC. The newer 9mm JHP rounds passed the test and there was NO DIFFERENCE in incapacitation between the three rounds. Only if an impact was at 2000 fps or faster did wound size make any difference. So they said. Remember that there is probably much more real data on bullet effects on humans than on animals. The latter are all anecdotal.

If that is true, then the 9mm should always be preferred among semis.

Pretty much nails it why the transition to 9 with quality defense bullets.

Less recoil shoot faster and more accurately and same or better wound channels

We may eventually switch over to the 9mm G17 147gr but for now, that is not on our radar. We will wait and see how other agencies deploy it and the results.

Just because you see a lot of police .40 turn-ins does not mean they are moving away from .40. The local PD selected M&P .40. The following year a competitor gave them a sweet deal on SIG's and offered a good deal to buy back their one year old M&P's. A whole bunch of near new M&P's got dumped on the market as police trade-ins but the department is still .40

What is the criteria for any weapon chosen by any LE agency? It seems to change from day to day, department by department.

When my son went through his training at the police academy, he qualified in the top of the shooters at the academy. The range officer told him “good shooting, do you want to keep your target?” He told the range officer “no thanks, if my dad ever saw that target he would kick my ass”

Interesting, After the sorry FBI shootout with 2 bank robbers in Fla back in the early 90's with the FBI using 9's that were not effectively employed or aimed they said they needed more power. So the 147 gr 9 mm came into being and a general switch to 10 mm and quicker change to 40 SW. Now they are telling us that the new level of ineptness mandates a change back to 9mm. HMMM with guys like Comey in the drivers seat maybe this explains their mediocrity. I'd make them all qualify with a 10 mm Colt or 45 ACP and once they have shown their competence in doing just that, tell them to use whatever they want. Can't hardly wait to see the first LEO body cam of an officer doing a mag dump on a suspect then reloading and doing a second mag dump on them.Is it any wonder why the world becomes more violent than less? MB

In my opinion, Departments should or could have a approved list of handguns and caliber options. That way an officer can pick what works for them and have confidence in that choice. The one size fits all concept was been proven be less then ideal. My agency would never do this due to costs. Guns and ammo. Some agencies allow this and it works well for all concerned. As if anyone cares what i think. Blue

What happens in a political institution when one size fits all.......

Women cops cannot handle heavy cartridge -> change cartridge -> wimpy cartridge inadequate -> change cartridge ->Women cops cannot handle heavy cartridge -> change cartridge -> wimpy cartridge inadequate -> change cartridge ->Women cops cannot handle heavy cartridge -> change cartridge -> wimpy cartridge inadequate -> change cartridge ->Women cops cannot handle heavy cartridge -> change cartridge -> wimpy cartridge inadequate -> change cartridge ...

The worlds is actually becoming less violent, not more. You get see more of it now with the 24 hour new cycle and text notifications to your phone every time something salacious happens.

The multi caliber/ gun option is the way to go. I attended a training with a fellow LE from San Diego County Sheriffs office ,his department had three caliber options and five handgun options. I thought that was awesome. he carried a Sig 220 with 6 spare mags. He was a big guy so weight was not problem. He was very confident with his choice.

That is true.

LEO Glock 40 trade-ins are pretty inexpensive these days. They'll go up in the future as does everything in limited supply.

Capitalism! Let em change, the money flows and we get a chance to buy some good guns at discounted prices!

The media that serves la enforcement keeps the “churning” dynamic alive and well in that world just like the gun writers keep it thriving on Planet Rifle Looney. As soon as gun sales level off a rash of new studies will come out showing that technological innovation has made something else the best choice.

Back in the Great Ammo Famine....40 was everywhere.

Source?

Something up in the cranberry patch?

Second that. Where can I find such a deal?