Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors 1937 Model 70 with Model 54 barrel?

I have a Model 70 with serial no. 11,3xx that has a Model 70 marked barrel stamped 35. Does that mean it was barreled with a Model 54 barrel but marked Model 70?
Phil

TenX: That is one possibility (probability!) the only other one is the "barrel stamper" made a human error there on about October 2nd of 1937 and picked up the wrong stamp and used it (the "5") instead of the "7"?
I would lean to the former over the latter.
Enjoy your old timey Rifle.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have read where Winchester did this during the changeover from the Model 54 to the Model 70.

I just thought it hard to figure. 35 year stamp but Model 70 marking. I guess not so strange if they marked year and model number a separate times. Sure like looking at the rust blue.
Phil

That’s exactly what happened. I know of two M70 .250-3000 Savage carbines (one a 1947 gun and the other a 1937 gun) both with under chamber mark ‘32’ indicating year of barrel manufacture.

What caliber is your gun chambered for?

I have a model 70 with a 3 digit serial number. It's marked 35 also.

That is a common occurance on early Model 70's. I had two 4 digit guns with 1935 barrels. The later M54 barrels are no different from M70 barrels. The upgrades were to the action, no change to the barrels.

Mine is just a 30-06, nothing special but it is a deer killing machine!
Phil

I have seen M54s with M70 bolt assemblies

Many 54's were fit with M70 bolt parts at the factory when M54 replacements were exhausted.

Also the barrels were date and caliber stamped in the "barrel making" or manufacturing process. They were roll stamped during the "metal finishing" process. The chambering and date were stamped before polishing; that is why they look faintly struck compared to the roll stamped exterior marking.

TenX: Indeed the barrels on the Model 54's were "rust blued" but the actions on the Model 54's (and early Model 70's) were carbonum (charcoal) blued.
I admire greatly the charcoal bluing even though the difficult to do "rust bluing" is also very pleasing to look at.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I came across a barrel that is just the opposite of this. It was a .30Gov't'06 barrel roll marked in the Model 70 pattern and date coded 41, but was cleanly marked Model 54! Its odd to me with that late of a date code being a Model 54 barrel. Has anyone noted such a barrel?

Don't hold me to this...but I read someplace that Winchester offered 54 owners some kind of up grade offer, send in your 54 and they would overhaul it with M70 styled parts...maybe low bolt handle for scope (possibly a 70 bolt sleeve, I had one like that), shorter striker fall for sure, maybe a safety compatible with scope mounting. I don't have any Winchester history books, so don't know for sure.

Lots of permutations. Posted pics of a M54 30-06 barrel with a 39 under barrel date stamp in the Image Gallery. The 54 is hand stamped with individual die and the barrel also has the P in an oval stamp (mail order barrel).

Thank you for posting those pics! Yep, it looks very similar to your barrel. It can be viewed as its currently listed for sale on Ebay.

Early in the barrel making process they caliber stamped with the year and witness mark on the underside. Later in the process they polished the outside then roll stamped the outer markings with the exception of some hand stamped calibers. That is why the underside markings are sometimes a bit faint while the visible outer markings are sharp and distinct. Many early model 70's and later ones in super rare calibers have the 32 - 35 barrel dates.

I believe the original Thread from 2019 and the present "opposite" situation reflect similar causes.

Both the "improved"* Model 54 and the Model 70 shared quite similar barrel characteristics. One would screw right onto anohter, just the typical headspace matter of all bolt rifle barrel swaps. Motivation, such as a barrel of one conveniently available to accommodate a particular desire such as for differing chambering, barrel length, etc. In the eras where this sort of thing likely, "collectibility" hadn't raised it's head. A matter of practicality and economics in wider setting of a nation shaking off severe depression. (*The early, pre "A" series Model 54 serial number suffix, might have required some barrel extractor area adjustment.)

In respect of Model 70 bolts as replacements; true! In 1932, part of that "improved" Model 54 upgrade was a "speedlock" mechanism engineered into the latter Model 54 bolts. A subsequent 'alleged' retrofit demand and the Factory exhausting meager spare 54 Improved bolt supplies! Beyond, finding it more convenient/economical to fit an entire new Model 70 bolt assembly 'as adapted'. The stories suggesting a contagion of forgetful Model 54 owners misplacing entire bolts, likely not as well fitting Occam's razor theory of probabilities. I believe the side benefit of "low scope" Model 70 bolt inherent advantage more likely a 'nice frill' only in era where factory rifles didn't come D&T equipped. "Scope-ready denand; not!"

I believe these true "factory complete Model 70 bolt conversions of the Model 54 count as "factory product 'IF' it bark and tail wags sufficiently as genuine. Otherwise, as 54 bolt "modified" rifle to be adjudged on its "shooter" versus collector merits!

Just my take and notably 'buying into some popular theories here'.

Best!
John

FWIW…..M70’s S/N 3, 5 and 6 have ‘35 dated barrels. All are 30GOV’T’06.

What about #1, 2 and 4?

Does your barrel have the P in an Oval/Mail Order Stamp?