Given: Walnut stock with factory finish and no action bedding.
Objective: Wood stock that is weather resistant.
Which would come first? * Bedding the Action (Midway USA kit, most likely) * Slathering the inside bits of stock with naval spar varnish (as well as under recoil pad).
I am happy with the factory finish on the stock. It isn't great, but good enough for my purposes.
Anything I am missing, regarding weather-izing a wood stock? I own some Renaissance Wax. When all is complete, ought I slather some inside and outside the stock and the exterior metal?
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I might be in a metro area, but it might as well be a desert, given that there is not a gunsmith worth a hoot nearby. Last stock work I had done locally looked like it was finished by trained beavers. So, I take on the simple gunsmithing tasks. Simple stock work is the next step.
I have bedded one rifle action, a Ruger American Compact Rifle in .243Win into a Boyd's stock. Used the kit from Midway USA and it worked out great. My next project will be a 1980s era Remington ADL in .30-06 in the factory walnut. Then I want to tackle my CZ550 in .375H&H, again, walnut. I figure starting with cheapest and moving on to more expensive stocks will set me up for success.
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Thank you all for your time.
Regards,
deadlift_dude “The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence.” ----Fred Rogers
I would get the bedding out of the way first, you want the epoxy to bond directly to the wood not to any finish. Mask off the exterior of the stock right up to the inletting so as not to get anything on the finish. Sealant for the action mortise and barrel channel will be dictated by how closely it's inletted. If it's really tight all the way around you won't have room for much build up of varnish. I would mix the varnish 50/50 with some oil and wipe it on, let sit for a bit and wipe it off. After it sits overnight I would then install the metal bits and see how they fit. If you sense that there's wiggle room, do another coat. Areas that are nowhere near a tight fit can be varnished of course, but even then I would thin the varnish somewhat with mineral spirits or naptha- you just don't want varnish to interfere with, for example, the trigger mechanism if the stock should swell. Waxing inside the stock afterwards is as important as waxing the outside too.
Remember though that no matter what you finish a wood stock with, inside or out, it won't be as weather proof as a synthetic stock. It's just that some finishes are way more weather resistant than others.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
I would get the bedding out of the way first, you want the epoxy to bond directly to the wood not to any finish. Mask off the exterior of the stock right up to the inletting so as not to get anything on the finish. Sealant for the action mortise and barrel channel will be dictated by how closely it's inletted. If it's really tight all the way around you won't have room for much build up of varnish. I would mix the varnish 50/50 with some oil and wipe it on, let sit for a bit and wipe it off. After it sits overnight I would then install the metal bits and see how they fit. If you sense that there's wiggle room, do another coat. Areas that are nowhere near a tight fit can be varnished of course, but even then I would thin the varnish somewhat with mineral spirits or naptha- you just don't want varnish to interfere with, for example, the trigger mechanism if the stock should swell. Waxing inside the stock afterwards is as important as waxing the outside too.
Remember though that no matter what you finish a wood stock with, inside or out, it won't be as weather proof as a synthetic stock. It's just that some finishes are way more weather resistant than others.
+1
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
I would get the bedding out of the way first, you want the epoxy to bond directly to the wood not to any finish. Mask off the exterior of the stock right up to the inletting so as not to get anything on the finish. Sealant for the action mortise and barrel channel will be dictated by how closely it's inletted. If it's really tight all the way around you won't have room for much build up of varnish. I would mix the varnish 50/50 with some oil and wipe it on, let sit for a bit and wipe it off. After it sits overnight I would then install the metal bits and see how they fit. If you sense that there's wiggle room, do another coat. Areas that are nowhere near a tight fit can be varnished of course, but even then I would thin the varnish somewhat with mineral spirits or naptha- you just don't want varnish to interfere with, for example, the trigger mechanism if the stock should swell. Waxing inside the stock afterwards is as important as waxing the outside too.
Remember though that no matter what you finish a wood stock with, inside or out, it won't be as weather proof as a synthetic stock. It's just that some finishes are way more weather resistant than others.
Thanks.
Gotcha: 1. Bed action 2. Varnish inside of stock with 50/50 oil/varnish
Follow-on Question: What oil? Are we talking some penetrating solvent, like odorless mineral spirits to thin it up or something like boiled linseed oil or tung oil, which will harden or some other sort of oil? I use 50/50 BLO/odorless mineral spirits annually on my utility trailer.
I don't expect synthetic stock or laminate stock indifference to the elements out of walnut.
Regards,
deadlift_dude “The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence.” ----Fred Rogers
Mix the varnish 50/50 or so with either boiled linseed oil or pure tung oil, doesn't matter which. Or, simply dilute the varnish with mineral spirits or naptha and apply it straight, wipe off before it gets tacky, let dry overnight. Either way should have about the same effect.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
I don't like Midways Miles Gilbert bedding. Only used it once, I don't buy schidt I didn't like, and it didn't get hard. Stayed kind of plastic.
Johnson paste wax, JB Weld, or Devcon from the hardware/Walmart. Pick up some surgical tubing.
That has done well for me and is cheap.
Or Accraglass, but, it costs more, because of the kit thing.
JB Weld and Devcon make a HUGE array of blends both specialty and big-box handyman types. They only sell a few of them at any given store... most of those are marginal for bedding purposes.
I much prefer Marine-Tex Gray.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
The bedding compound itself makes a good sealer. If I have left over I will coat the magazine well or any areas that have enough clearance. I am not sure about this but it seems mixing oil with spar or other varnishes might reduce the water repel-ency. I just use Spar varnish with enough turpentine so it can be wiped on. I use two coats for insurance.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
Mix the varnish 50/50 or so with either boiled linseed oil or pure tung oil, doesn't matter which. Or, simply dilute the varnish with mineral spirits or naptha and apply it straight, wipe off before it gets tacky, let dry overnight. Either way should have about the same effect.
Maybe I'll run 50/50 varnish/mineral spirits, due to ease of application. I also like the way to 50/50 BLO/MS penetrates into my trailer deck. Maybe get some of that spar varnish deeper into the stock.
Originally Posted by Dillonbuck
I don't like Midways Miles Gilbert bedding. Only used it once, I don't buy schidt I didn't like, and it didn't get hard. Stayed kind of plastic.
Johnson paste wax, JB Weld, or Devcon from the hardware/Walmart. Pick up some surgical tubing.
That has done well for me and is cheap.
Or Accraglass, but, it costs more, because of the kit thing.
The Midway kit product is the only material I have used for this purpose. I did include a healthy amount of microballoons to thicken it up and make it STAY. Done that with epoxy in other applications with good results. The bedding on my son's RACR+Boyd's got hard as any epoxy I've mixed.
The Midway kit was nice as it has everything but the microballoons for a first-timer. Maybe I'll try Acraglass for my Rem 700 ADL. Cost is less important than a good result. Heck, I'd pay good money to a smith to do it, but locally the smiths are not so good. I miss Frank Smith from Lone Star Guns. Him, I could drop it off, knowing it was going to be done right.
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
JB Weld and Devcon make a HUGE array of blends both specialty and big-box handyman types. They only sell a few of them at any given store... most of those are marginal for bedding purposes.
I much prefer Marine-Tex Gray.
Talked to my boating buddy and he swears by this stuff. Multi-purpose.
If you use linseed or tung oil, buy it from an art store,not Home Depot. Big difference in quality.
I did not know that. I bought my tung oil online when I finished my walking canes, but got the BLO from Lowes for my trailer deck.
Originally Posted by Tejano
The bedding compound itself makes a good sealer. If I have left over I will coat the magazine well or any areas that have enough clearance. I am not sure about this but it seems mixing oil with spar or other varnishes might reduce the water repel-ency. I just use Spar varnish with enough turpentine so it can be wiped on. I use two coats for insurance.
I did bed a few inches of the bbl on my son's RACR+Boyd's, maybe I'll do the same on the Rem 700. Two light dilute coats with the spar varnish sounds like a good idea.
Regards,
deadlift_dude “The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence.” ----Fred Rogers
Think for a second about what the sealer is doing in the channel... if it is different from the finish on the rest of the stock the water vapor will get at the wood at a different rate in two places, inside and outside.
So let's say we take a rifle from south Florida to Arizona to hunt for an extreme example.
The wood will be pretty plump with water from Florida's high humidity. If we seal the channel with epoxy virtually no water will leave through that route. but the outside has some, to quite a lot of water loss due to different finishes. So water will leave faster than it does through the channel. That could possible lead to the fore end pulling away from the barrel because the outside is shrinking.
Reverse that and go to FL from AZ. Now the outside can pick up water faster and swell... and bending into the barrel.
All oil-based finishes will absorb atmospheric water faster than bare wood...
Keep the finish in the channel as similar to the outside as possible.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Originally Posted by Sitka deer JB Weld and Devcon make a HUGE array of blends both specialty and big-box handyman types. They only sell a few of them at any given store... most of those are marginal for bedding purposes.
I much prefer Marine-Tex Gray.
Talked to my boating buddy and he swears by this stuff. Multi-purpose.
Look at the huge differences in compression and shear strengths between the white and the gray. The gray is much harder, stronger, and tougher. Do not use the white it is for repairing gel coat.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Think for a second about what the sealer is doing in the channel...
...All oil-based finishes will absorb atmospheric water faster than bare wood...
Keep the finish in the channel as similar to the outside as possible.
Good points. Anyone know what CZ used to finish their wood stocks back around 2008? It does not look like an oil finish. I would hazard a satin-finished polyurethane.
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Look at the huge differences in compression and shear strengths between the white and the gray. The gray is much harder, stronger, and tougher. Do not use the white it is for repairing gel coat.
Indeed. I figured that out after reading a bit more at marinetex.com. My son could use the white for his Laser sailboat.
Regards,
deadlift_dude “The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence.” ----Fred Rogers
I was wondering what sort of material you all used to finish the stock on my CZ550 American Safari with the entry-level walnut stock? I think you all might call it "field grade."
I intend to bed the action and then finish the inside of the stock to make it more water/humidity resistant. Matching finish types/materials in & out is supposed to be the right way to go.
For example, some finish types are: Polyurethane Boiled Linseed Oil Tung Oil Naval Spar Varnish
Also, a search of https://czfirearms.us forum got me bupkis, as did a general internet search. Others like me asked the question, but none had an answer.
BLO should never come anywhere near any gun. It is junk oil with a vast assortment of additives. Grace may have said it best.
"Oil finish" means almost nothing for your purposes because a vast array of finishing techniques could be used to apply it.
But you do not have to get that technical about matching it up. It is most likely a high-resin (relatively speaking) content oil and any number of commercial finishes could come plenty close enough in duplicating it. Plain old Tru-Oil is probably very close to the same in the cured state.
Spar varnish is probably quite a bit more waterproof.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
It's pretty generally accepted at this point (by most folks at least) that the best bedding compounds are Devcon plastic steel (tougher but doesn't always finish as pretty) and Marine Tex gray; flows nicer, can look cleaner, slightly better for skim bedding. Those two are proven by tens of thousands of rifle builders and shooters. I would not use anything else.
But in the past and when bedding a buddy's rifle in the middle of nowhere, I have used JB weld and Devcon you buy in hardware stores. They also worked. Worst stuff I ever used was acraglass, which flows like a slushy and requires you to build dams, etc.
Best release compound is kiwi clear shoe polish, Johnsons floor wax works pretty well too. But the kiwi is the way to go.
Some poly urethane type thing will have a way similar moisture absorption rate to most factory finishes, probably. That's prob the best way to go for barrel channel.
I have seen a lot of new guys to bedding have trouble with wax.
Brownell's accra release is idiot proof. Spray it on, spray it in the chamber, locking lugs, all the recesses, then when you pull the action of the bedding, wash it off with brake cleaner.
Key to wax and accra release is to degrease the parts first, apply two coats of release agent....never a problem.
It's pretty generally accepted at this point (by most folks at least) that the best bedding compounds are Devcon plastic steel (tougher but doesn't always finish as pretty) and Marine Tex gray; flows nicer, can look cleaner, slightly better for skim bedding. Those two are proven by tens of thousands of rifle builders and shooters. I would not use anything else.
But in the past and when bedding a buddy's rifle in the middle of nowhere, I have used JB weld and Devcon you buy in hardware stores. They also worked. Worst stuff I ever used was acraglass, which flows like a slushy and requires you to build dams, etc.
Best release compound is kiwi clear shoe polish, Johnsons floor wax works pretty well too. But the kiwi is the way to go.
Some poly urethane type thing will have a way similar moisture absorption rate to most factory finishes, probably. That's prob the best way to go for barrel channel.
"Original" Acraglass does flow. Acraglass Gel does not.
