Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Handloader magazine does it again

In the June 2007 Handloader is a ten page article on the 22-250 Remington cartridge.

In headline print on page 57, "Most rifles - including those from Remington, Winchester, Savage, Ruger, Browning, Weatherby, and others - feature a one-in-14-inch twist."

According to Savage customer service, Savage has not offered the 14-inch twist in 22-250 in over ten years, probably longer. Their normal 22-250 twist has been 12-inch and are now offering additionally the 9-inch twist.

A short while back, Wolfe did the long article on the non-existent factory 416 RUM cartridge. Now they make a major deal about a twist rate mentioning specific rifles in major print that do not exist.

The twist rate is not a major issue to most, though the article does emphasize the 22-250 slower 14-inch twist as being beneficial compared to the faster twist 222 (?) and 223, so the writer thought it was important. It does show that writers and/or editors are not really researching their material before they write or print it.

Don't know if it was worse or better years ago. I was probably just naive then. But I thought Wolfe magazines used to do a better job on accuracy.

On page 53 of issue 121 they misused the word "their", it should have been spelled "there". When I saw that I threw the magazine into the fireplace in disgust and haven't read one since.

So now, 124 issues later, you're telling us they've f***ed up yet again?! What a bunch of maroons...









(must be mere mortals running the place)

Might check. Think it was a lot fewer than 124 issues ago. Like maybe the May 2007 Rifle.

Guess we should forgive poor grammar, spelling, etc., since we have all been handicapped by the computer. But to make an issue of twist rate, place it in large print, and then to not have even checked it out... I might put that in another category.

But if we accept that the accuracy rate of published magazines should be on par with the internet chat rooms, then... But I will quickly point out that I have no data on the average accuracy of either.

Mule Deer did come out and say he thought barrel break in was not necessary which I have thought for years, and another article touts the Speer 405 gr 45 bullet in a 45-70 for elk, which I have used for years.

Mule Deer's article was quite an interesting read.

Umpteen years ago, believe it was written by Bob Milek, there was an article on testing rifles for 20 five-shot groups without cleaning. Believe there were four rifles in the test. Milek published the group sizes. He concluded that there was no degradation of accuracy in those rifles during the 100 shots fired. I took the data and placed it in statistical control charts which showed the same conclusion that Milek reached.

There are some competitive shooters who seem to agree with Mule Deer and Milek on this issue.

Again, that was an interesting article.

I might add that I have every issue of Handloader and Rifle magazines since their start. Besides my subscription copies, I have multiple copies of most of them due to purchases of big boxes of magazines and books at gun shows. Believe I have all of Wolfe's classic series books and all their other publications too. I have depended on Wolfe for good reading material and in depth thought for a long time. You can tell the ebb and flow over the years.

Well, if it's a mistake (I say "if" because I haven't personally verified what Hammer1 claims to be a paraphrased statement from an alleged Savage spokesman - who might have been wrong, too...) then so what? Who is harmed unless somebody selects a Savage rifle in .22-250 SPECIFICALLY because he thinks it has a given twist rate, but actually gets one that some posters here think is a better twist rate to begin with?

Okay, that sounds peevish. But, hey, it's one thing to point out a really dangerous error (such as recommending 27 grains of Bullseye versus 2.7 grains) and quite another to jump on one that's essentially meaningless. Maybe we should save our sharp knives for the trophy catch, huh?

As the bumper sticker says, "Shinola Happens".

Right is still right and wrong is still wrong! Be Wrong enough times and it will make no difference if you are Right or Wrong!

Rags are still rags----sent my money in for the ones that Mule Deer is working for months ago. Have not received SQUAT but they have my money !! Just everyone be advised not only will they lie but take your money quicker than a one armed bandit in Lost Wages!! I hope they all starve---only a couple are worth a crap PS and VH which I have gotten for years. I was trying to be nice and help out MD and as a result am a little poorer � no worries chalk it up to experience!

Rocky has it right - we tend to be overly hard on the good guys - save the heat for the gun-confiscating totalitarians.

Rifle and Handloader are great pubs with occasional mistakes.

Mainframe

Boss Hoss, when one says something based on the best information available at the time, and it later turns out to be wrong, that's not a lie, that's a mistake. (George Bush detractors, please take note.) Every publication makes scores of them, mostly innocuous. They correct those that aren't as soon as they can. They could suspend printing until every single word, statement, figure, graph, map and detail is verified by three independent sources, but it'd be a helluva long time between issues if they did.

Regarding your subscription, that's a shame. But most subscriptions aren't handled by the publication itself. They're handled by subscription clearing houses that do all the bookwork and such. Sad to say, there are numerous bogus subscription houses. It's possible you're the victim of a scam, or perhaps your envelope fell into a crack, or never got delivered, or maybe you forgot to sign the check. Or something. Or, it really wasn't so long ago after all, and your first copy is in tomorrow's mail.

Whatever it is, it might not be Handloader or Rifle at fault.

The source is Effie Sullivan, who works in Savage customer service and the custom shop. Have had lots of dealings with Effie when buying custom Savage rifles over the years. Another easy source to check would be the last several years of Savage catalogs which all have a twist rate chart.



And the people who do not buy a Savage because they erroneously think it has a slow 14-inch twist rate. Have run into folks who special ordered aftermarket barrels to get a fast twist who later learned that it was available straight from a factory as a regular production item. Guess $500 for an unnecessary barrel is not much harm in the big scheme of things for many.

And Savage Arms and their employees who have put a lot of product development dollars and time into responding to their customers' interest in fast twist barrels.

There is a lot of interest in twist rates among Savage shooters because of their use in long range target and varmint shooting. That is why Savage is now offering twist rates of 12, 9, and even 7-inch twist in some 224 caliber centerfires. Some folks are using them for longer range target shooting which some people equate with longer, heavier bullets and faster twist. To have a company just this year introduce even faster twist rates (the 7-inch) due to customer demand and then to have a magazine highlight an erroneous slow twist rate...

(Again, the slow 14-inch twist has been gone ten years or more.)

But I concede that unless published errors are life threatening, their frequency and economic consequences are not important.

I see your point, my friend. I do think that a person considering a long-range heavy-bullet Savage would ask them about a specific twist rate, and not necessarily look to a magazine to confirm what they're getting. But your point is valid - the error MIGHT cost Savage a sale or three.

(And I was trying to be a little humorous in my string of "claimed, paraphrased, alleged" qualifiers. Hope you got that.)

RockyRaab,

Humor duly noted, though I did not catch it the first time.

As previously stated, spelling, grammar, etc., are not my beef.

I just appreciate the companies that are out there trying to do something for their customers, taking business risks, not taking the easy way every time. And to have the companies and their employees' efforts short changed, it bothers me.

Also, many folks are tougher on their own children than they are on others. They love their children and want the best for them. They push them to reach high ideals.

I have been a reader of Wolfe publications since the mid-1970s and then acquired everything of theirs published before then. Wolfe, Precision Shooting, The Varmint Hunter, The Cast Bullet Association's Fouling Shot, and a very few others are in a different league than the off-the-shelf rags. If they fall into the lower realms of expectations, then of course we cannot recommend them to our friends, can we ?

I never used the term "LIE". In my business when you are wrong it may cost somebody his or her life and being wrong just a few times makes credibility go down the toilet. When I subscribed I used a contact number someone had or I looked up but it was for the magazine itself and used a credit card. Might follow up but they have my money and I just wanted to help MD most likely would not have read the magazines anyway. Not a whole lot in the mainstream rags that can provide much if any benefit to me at this point in my shooting and reloading career but I was going to give it a try. Oh well maybe it was fate.

Still the best magazine out there . . .

No doubt!

Would have to respectfully say that Precision Shooting and The Varmint Hunter are in the running for that title.

Actually, you did, my friend.

BigHorse, since you brought up Fate, I propose to you that computers know when you don't like them and they do retaliate. I suggest you go back to your's an apologize. Then the Karma will be restored and all those computers standing between you and blissful reading will restore your subscription!

Oh, and one more thing, be sincere. They can tell when you're not!

As Rocky and Mainframe are alluding to...

It's a Friday afternoon in the merry month of May. Forecast for the weekend is sunny blue skies with highs in the low 80's. If you're reading this it probably means you're financially well off enough to afford rifles and computers, so one has to assume that you also have enough money to buy food to eat and a home with electricity to operate your computer.

Of course, somewhere in the world right this very second people are starving or being slaughtered in any of several godforsaken little wars. A town in Kansas was just wiped out by a tornado. Va. Tech just had it's commencement ceremony minus 33 people.

Life is pretty good if you count your blessings, or it can be misery if you get pissed off over every little thing. So it's very difficult to work up a good mad right now over someone making a small error in a magazine.

Of course, there's always:
www.grumpyoldmenanonymous.com