Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles DRT Caliber...DRT Bullet... DRT Speed...DRT Distance

How do you know how far a deer ran if you don't find it?

Of what I have used a180 gn grand slam out of my 300 Weatherby. I have never had a deer take a step with it yet. And I hit a couple that were moving too far back. They still dropped dead.

I had made the statement that energy had to be the deciding factor for DRT kills... BUT... that has to be wrong... My Bad. If that was true, then just use a big bullet with plenty of energy. DRT kills just has to be the results of Hydro static Shock.

There just has to be a way to compute a formula for Hydro-static Shock....Hmmmm....

If you`re looking at Hydro-static shock, maybe you should look to Berger bullets...most any caliber.
Also, check out Barbour Creek Shooting School on You tube. Testing various bullets. May be of some interest to you.

PS, the Bergers work as advertised..I`ve had a bit of experience with them.

Having killed 2-300+ big game animals and witnessing hundreds more, the combo that has provided the most DRT kills has been the 7mm Rem Mag with 150 grain NBTs at 3100+. After discovering that combo and it's effects on deer size game and large hogs over 20 years ago, I must admit I rode the "speed kills" train for the majority of my hunting career. That said, I changed my opinion on that concept after trying smaller carts with expansive pills(IE 308 based carts with NBTs or SSTs). The most recent string of DRT kills for me has been rather perplexing to say the least. I've taken 6 deer with the 6.8SPC in recent years using the Hdy 120 SST at a mere 2590fps MV and the combined total yardage for death runs out of those 6 kills is a mere 40yards with 4 of the 6 being anchored on the spot. 4 of those 6.8 kills weighed over 230lbs as well. I realize 6 is a very small sample size, but I'm still amazed at how that tiny round performs on game. I believe that the trend for "DRT" kills is directly related to wound cavity size. It has been my overwhelming experience that bullets that provide more internal damage result in shorter tracking jobs. It has also been my experience that there is a happy medium between wound cavity size and penetration. For example running a bullet of "soft" construction at very high MV has resulted in odd performance such as shallow penetration, lack of exits, and sometimes very difficult tracking. The combos that have delivered the most dramatic results or what some may deem the best results has been matching bullet construction with speed. A great example would be the 150NBT/7RM combo I mentioned above, it delivers great wound cavities, but also provides adequate penetration. Another great example would be the 6.8/120SST combo I mentioned as well. That bullet is a pretty lack luster performer at normal velocity, but slowing it down to the speed of the 6.8 allows it to not only deliver massive internal damage, it also allows it to penetrate sufficiently.

On the other side of the spectrum I also run quite a few "premium" combos such as Partitions, various bonded bullets, and monos. While these combos provide excellent accuracy and outstanding penetration, they simply do not provide as much internal destruction and game travels much further without CNS or large bone impacts. There's nothing wrong with that at all, but I'm getting to the point where I do like shorter tracking jobs most of the time.

Match the bullet construction and velocity with the animal at hand and you'll have a successful outcome.

Have a nice day,

loder

Hear, hear!

A close friend of mine has been using a mid-speed 308 load I put together for him, H4895 capped by a 168 gr. Berger VLD assembled in vintage LC match brass for about 2600 fps. It has been reliable enough on deer and hogs that when I asked if he wanted to try something else his answer was a quick "Why?".

That is very good stuff there Reloader.. . thanks so much.

I'm thinking about screaming my 7RM with 120's at 3400-3500 fps...... and or.... a screaming 6.5 creedmoor with 120's.... I know the 7 RM will defiantly do it with the 150's like you said.... I may do that... but I just got a wild hair about screaming those 120's... LOL. thanks again

PS... I can't get my head around those slow speed killers... YET.... but there might just be something to it.

IS 32 caliber to big for this? Either way Ill tell you about one I had Sunday January 5th. 140 pound doe. 8x57 175 grain ppu bullet running 2620 fps out the muzzle. Shot was 65 yards. I was slightly elevated in a tripod type stand. Maybe 12-14 feet off the ground. Bullet entered her left shoulder missed her leg bone but started expanding in the meat. Much bloodshot damage. Hit the ribs on that side made a 2 inch entrance wound in her chest smacked dead into her heart. Completely tearing it apart. Then exited out the between the second to last rib. Huge blood shot spot/ bruising on the right side ribs.. She just sort of sat back on her butt at the shot then rolled over. Kicked a few times and that was it. First one ,for me, not to move when I have not gotten a piece of the cns. I have shot them, seen the after effects of many bullets on deer over the last 20+ years of hunting. very few of our kills are drt that weren't hit in the cns. Maybe like 2 to 5 % most move anywhere from 10 to 75 or so yards after the hit. They are wild animals, and it is very hard to predict what they will do after the bullet hits them.. to say you can come up with the perfect drt rifle with heart/lung shots is almost impossible.

Quote....the perfect drt rifle with heart/lung shots is almost impossible.

LOL... I'm not looking for the perfect rifle... just some of the TOP COMBOS.

Sounds like an excellent combo. The 165 SGK HPBT is another great one at 2600, but not near the BC as that Berger. The 165 SST at 2600 is pretty salty as well, but I don’t care for much more speed with it. Heck, you can throw the 165 NBT in there as well. All 4 of those are close in that application IMO, it would boil down to accuracy out of a particular rifle for me.

Both of those would get the job done for sure. My pick would be the CM even though I’m a huge 7RM fan. I say that because I believe you’ll be disappointed in penetration on larger animals with the 120 at 3500. The 120/6.5 otoh should do great if it’s anything like they behave in my 6.5-06.

I just set up a 6.5CM and I’m starting with the 130SGC. Also about to pick up a custom 260 as well.

Good luck with your quest.

My friend and I have used all of those with success. The Sierra I used in full power loads, typically on top of 46 grains of Varget for a bit under 2700 fps out of my LVSF. My friend used the SST on top of the same charge for something like 2750 fps out of his Kimber. Later that was switched to 43.5 grains of H4895 because I didn't like the extra fiddling before seating bullets on the compressed charge of Varget. The current issue 165 NBT has quite a heavy jacket. I've drilled a few hogs (150 pound class) with it and haven't caught one.

Nice! I also wanted to give the new 165 SGC a run as it should be in the same realm performance wise and has a great BC for the weight class. My 30-06 CR just would not run them as well as others. Haven't tried them in 308 yet, but I could see them replacing the old HPBTGK.