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some similar things to think about.
If aspirin were discovered today it would be on prescription because of its toxicity profile.
when a pt. calls up the doctor and cries on the docs shoulder for antibiotics, the doc called it in to get back to their "real" work load. (caused most of resistence seen today)
Pondimin in weight loss, ok if used under supervision, but got popular without pt. getting check for heart rate irregularities
phenylpropanolamine nasal decongestant use as stay awake drug.
list is endless.
Most people don't have what it takes to get old
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I can understand wanting to regulate it, but this isn't opioids we are talking about here.
I would expect worst case scenario is that the patient has no positive effects from taking the drug when correctly prescribed by the doctor while potentially having some side effects that exist simultaneously with the virus.
With more than 150m doses of this drug ready to be in the hands of doctors in a short period of time, this can't be about running out. Won't state the obvious.
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I can understand wanting to regulate it, but this isn't opioids we are talking about here.
I would expect worst case scenario is that the patient has no positive effects from taking the drug when correctly prescribed by the doctor while potentially having some side effects that exist simultaneously with the virus.
With more than 150m doses of this drug ready to be in the hands of doctors in a short period of time, this can't be about running out. Thats the point of my post---- why not use ACE2 inhibitors,, Losartan etc. 1000 times safer.
Most people don't have what it takes to get old
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I live in Michigan. It’s seems when it comes to governors, it goes back and forth between GOP and DNC. Eight years of one and then the other.
But in my opinion, this one is really bad. She blunders often and seems to be over her head. Everything she does is because some other governor did it first and that makes it ok. Something goes wrong, and she blames someone else. She takes ownership of nothing. Again, she is in over her head.
It is really embarrassing to have her as my governor. Read a little on Oregon's Governor/Queen.....Clueless Cate....you won't feel as bad as yours.. ya gotta wonder... do women have what it takes to be a Governor? even with all this women's lib crap ya gotta wonder.. I know of plenty of women who I would trust to be a governor and run a state... sadly none of them are in politics... Bernie is a prime example.. if you are totally useless in society.. become a politician...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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It boggles the mind that a politician would step in and prevent medical professionals from doing what they think is best for a patient,..regardless of the sickness.
Michigan Physicians should just stay home until the Governor gets her mind right about the matter.
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First, I'm clearly not a fan of hers. Playing political football with the people's lives in this state is reprehensible. She takes every opportunity to bask Federal response. It's abhorrent that she consider the residents of Michigan and does not work with the POTUS, instead always swimming against the current. Now I just found out that she may cancel the rest of the school year without seeing how this suspension ending 12 April plays out. JFC.
However, the letter is to warn prescribers that are hoarding the Hydroxycholorquine and Z-pack for their families. They are literally writing scripts for hundreds for tablets for themselves. 2 cases have been documented on this side of the state and my sister who's an Rph has seen it where she dispenses. Any scripts with a more than 14 day supply is suspect. Lupus and RA patients who depend on the drug are finding it in short supply. The need for these meds for COVID-19 is ony going to increase.
A prescriber, here in Michigan can write for any drug the FDA has approved. It can be off-label and often is. Should something happen because of prescribed "off-label" pharmaceutical therapy, then the prescriber opens themselves up to litigation, but that's a civil matter and it's why malpractice insurance is so damn high. The letter does not say that they cannot write for COVID-19, just that there is no indication for it. With no indication, that means there is no approved dosing schedule. How many tablets and how often? Is it weight based, age based, etc. Is there any reason it would make COVID-19 patients worse?
Prescriber has a broad definition here in Michigan. Obviously, it applies to any medical doctor with an MD or DO, as well as NPs and PAs. However, it also applies to dentists, veterinarians, psychiatrists, nurse mid-wives, optometrists, podiatrists, and other licensed health people writing under an MD's or DO's DEA number.
Bottom line is that prescribers cannot rx this drug without a legitimate medical reason like lupus, RA, or COVID-19.
"A Republic, if you can keep it." ~ B. Franklin
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Campfire Ranger
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I somewhat find it interesting to note that a friend of mine is married to an RN. She has been on hydroxychloroquine for years as prescribed by her doctor for Lupus, it has and is effective for her.MB My friend has been taking it for 3 years for rheumatoid arthritis. He can't fill his prescription this week due to demand
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Campfire Ranger
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thanks for the explanation First, I'm clearly not a fan of hers. Playing political football with the people's lives in this state is reprehensible. She takes every opportunity to bask Federal response. It's abhorrent that she consider the residents of Michigan and does not work with the POTUS, instead always swimming against the current. Now I just found out that she may cancel the rest of the school year without seeing how this suspension ending 12 April plays out. JFC.
However, the letter is to warn prescribers that are hoarding the Hydroxycholorquine and Z-pack for their families. They are literally writing scripts for hundreds for tablets for themselves. 2 cases have been documented on this side of the state and my sister who's an Rph has seen it where she dispenses. Any scripts with a more than 14 day supply is suspect. Lupus and RA patients who depend on the drug are finding it in short supply. The need for these meds for COVID-19 is ony going to increase.
A prescriber, here in Michigan can write for any drug the FDA has approved. It can be off-label and often is. Should something happen because of prescribed "off-label" pharmaceutical therapy, then the prescriber opens themselves up to litigation, but that's a civil matter and it's why malpractice insurance is so damn high. The letter does not say that they cannot write for COVID-19, just that there is no indication for it. With no indication, that means there is no approved dosing schedule. How many tablets and how often? Is it weight based, age based, etc. Is there any reason it would make COVID-19 patients worse?
Prescriber has a broad definition here in Michigan. Obviously, it applies to any medical doctor with an MD or DO, as well as NPs and PAs. However, it also applies to dentists, veterinarians, psychiatrists, nurse mid-wives, optometrists, podiatrists, and other licensed health people writing under an MD's or DO's DEA number.
Bottom line is that prescribers cannot rx this drug without a legitimate medical reason like lupus, RA, or COVID-19.
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phenylpropanolamine nasal decongestant use as stay awake drug. Remember when this rx med was the main ingredient in those diet caramels of the '70s? My mom used to buy them to curb her appetite. Us kids used to eat handfuls because we thought they were candies. We were wired to the bejesus, bouncing off walls. Good times. I'm sure when PPA was pulled from the market because of people stroking out; the name of the caramel had something to do with it; Aids. 
"A Republic, if you can keep it." ~ B. Franklin
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phenylpropanolamine nasal decongestant use as stay awake drug. Remember when this rx med was the main ingredient in those diet caramels of the '70s? My mom used to buy them to curb her appetite. Us kids used to eat handfuls because we thought they were candies. We were wired to the bejesus, bouncing off walls. Good times. I'm sure when PPA was pulled from the market because of people stroking out; the name of the caramel had something to do with it; Aids. Yes but it was over the counter as Drixoral, which was a main stay of all commuters. Pharmacologically it has more sympathetic nervous stimulus than Ritalin. It was pulled from the market, because folks were combining it with Pondimin for weight control, but causing cardiacs instead. AND nobody has mentioned the Black Market that has already popped up on ZPak and Quinidines
Most people don't have what it takes to get old
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----mycin type antibiotics (erythromycin, zithromycin, -same drug longer 1/2 life) may have some use in Crono due to inhibition of cell wall development, but don't count on it.
Most people don't have what it takes to get old
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She is becoming unraveled.
Prob because the cops are dropping like flies and i doubt the claim yesterday in the media that crime is down because everyone is at home is true.
Forget the Canadian border, send the armed forces to detoilet.
Better not to take the shot, than to screw it up.
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I somewhat find it interesting to note that a friend of mine is married to an RN. She has been on hydroxychloroquine for years as prescribed by her doctor for Lupus, it has and is effective for her.MB My friend has been taking it for 3 years for rheumatoid arthritis. He can't fill his prescription this week due to demand Have they checked out the biologicals? safer, work better etc.
Last edited by Etoh; 03/27/20.
Most people don't have what it takes to get old
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Any doctor or hospital that did use a non FDA approved drug for other than its intended purpose would be liable. Whether the governor issued an order one way or the other.
Phil Not exactly true. Off label prescribing happens, perhaps more than many know about. Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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This is true. FDA approval is a long, slow process. Often times there are studies showing the efficacy of a drug in a non-approved use long before it ever becomes approved for that use, if ever. Most times these drugs have long track records and are approved for a certain applications (like Plaquenil —the antimalarial, anti-rheumatoid drugs being talked about now) so there use is proven safe but is not approved for a different, unique application. Like treatment, now, of COVID-19 virus sufferers with these anti-malarial drugs.
So, folks in that specialty where it has been shown to have a unique application, use it that way, approved or not.
I know that was true in anesthesia.
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If the issue is hoarding then why be so bored in the warning (ie “prescribe”) and narrow it down to the actual concern ie “hoard”?
Seems logical to me?
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Geno, this is often how medications get additional indications. tPA is a lytic for MIs. Think Draino for a clogged artery that's causing a heart attack. Stroke is sort of a "heart attack" of the brain. Some brave doc used tPA off-label in a stroke patient that was probably as a last resort and had a good outcome. That prompted studies. Now it's approved for heart attacks, strokes, PE, and CVAD. Sometimes the tail wags the dog.
"A Republic, if you can keep it." ~ B. Franklin
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Campfire Ranger
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if supply is the issue, then why put some blanket statement out there that focuses solely on contradicting the president and killing hope, as well as make it appear that you as the governor has made the decision to not allow people access to the only possible solution for those currently infected?
Call the doctors out for being irresponsible in a time of crisis
Last edited by KFWA; 03/27/20.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Any doctor or hospital that did use a non FDA approved drug for other than its intended purpose would be liable. Whether the governor issued an order one way or the other.
Phil Not exactly true. Off label prescribing happens, perhaps more than many know about. Geno Basically the term "off-label" use has more meaning to the insurance companies than the medical community as a whole. If the drug is used off label the insurance company doesn't have to cover it. (among a 100 other excuses the dream up} In the world of compounding pharmacy it means absolutely nothing. By changing the strength (using an increase or decrease in the dose wt) method of delivery (transdermal vs. oral) timing of delivery. a prescriber can use the drug for its side effects rather than the "cure" the FDA got paid for. Just as that long prescribers DEA number is on the script.
Most people don't have what it takes to get old
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If the issue is hoarding then why be so bored in the warning (ie “prescribe”) and narrow it down to the actual concern ie “hoard”?
Seems logical to me? Yes. She always has to get her political shots in. Even Fauci doesn't deny this could be an important therapy. The POTUS made his remarks about the drug combo to offer the nation hope. Most don't understand the nature of drug prescribing and see COVID-19 as a death sentence. DJT is trying to stem the panic - she is NOT helping. The order could have been very simply written. I still say, when the dust settles, that this will be the POTUS finest hour.
"A Republic, if you can keep it." ~ B. Franklin
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