Home Forums Reloading Handgun Reloading 41 magnum Cast Bullet Loads

Hi all,

I'm putting together some stout practice loads for my new 6 1/2" barrel Blackawk. First time loading for 41, bullets will be 215 grain cast swc from Missouri Bullets. Powders on hand include Clays, CFE Pistol, W231, Tightgroop, and Universal. I am looking for something in the 1050-1100fps neighborhood.

Looking at the Hodgdon website loads for 215gr cast bulIet, I only see one powder that will get me there, CFE Pistol.

Now the question.

Hodgdon shows data for 220 gr jacketed, with HP 38(w231), Universal and Tightgroop. They also have data for 245gr cast lead with a max load of 8 grains of Universal and 7.8 grains of Tightgroop.

I think I should be safe with 8 grains of Universal or 7.8 grains of Tightgroop behind my 215 gr cast bullet, but am not sure about extrapolating a load for w231 from the jacketed data. I have looked in my Lyman, Sierra, and Hornady, manuals, and can't find any published loads with w231 and cast bullets. Nosler has a load for 210gr jacketed and 7.6-8.6 grains w231.

Looking for other sources of published data, I do have a chronograph and will be running all these loads over it.

thanks
Bob

I use 8 grs. Cfe Pistol and either the 224 412429 or the NOE 230 K.

Never clocked em, but Id imagine a 6.5 bbl. would be in that range, at moderate 20,000psi. range.

Well I sure as hell wouldn’t recommend 7.8 of Titegroup since you will be 2.3 grains over max according to Hodgdons for a 215 cast and from my experience with that caliber using MBC 215 Hard cast.
I have found all of the powders you list to be very underwhelming in performance with the bullet you are using. There are only 3 powders I use in a 41 Unique for plinker, AA5 or AA9. AA9 has been a mainstay and primary powder as it’s easy to load from mild to wild.

HS6 and Unique are good mid range powders for the speeds you are seeking. While I have played with the fast powders some in magnum cases I am more inclined to go with a somewhat slower powder than 231/Bullseye/Titegroup. Just my preference.

Brian Pearce used 7.5 grs. of Unique and a 215 gr. Oregon Trail SWC for 1,065 fps from a 6inch M57.

While not the same powders, Universal, Power Pistol, AutoComp and CFE-Pistol will produce similar velocities with similar powder charges.

They have maximum jacketed loads going up to 1,200 fps. One could pick any of those and start at 7.5 grains, work up to your target velocity and call it good.

The lead loads are going to need less fuel to hit your target velocity, so any of those powders will probably be in the 7.5-8.5 gr charge weight for the bullets you are using.

His highest speeds with 215 cast and Titegroup is 907 fps. and a charge o 6 grs.. He doesn't list any loads with 231/HP38.

Thanks Hawk,

Got some loaded with 7.5 & 8 grains of CFE pistol. Just started using it in 45acp, but haven't had a chance to chrono any loads yet. Should be a fairly useful powder if it clocks anywhere near Hodgdons numbers.

Bob

Thanks Swifty,

Something strange about the Hodgdon data for 215gr cast bullet, pressures top out around 26,000 cup on all those loads, that 5.5 grain Tightgroop load only goes to 17,400 cup. Data for the 220 grian Speer Jacketed goes to 38,600 cup. Data for the 245 grain cast lead bullet goes to 39,500 cup with 7.8 grains of Tightgroop.

Are you saying that a 7.8 grain charge is going to be OK with a 245 grain cast bullet but not with a 215 grain bullet?

Thanks
Bob

Mart,

I don't have any HS-6 or Unique, but I do have about 4lbs of Universal left over from 12 gauge 1 1/4 oz Pheasant loads. I was hoping to use some as a substitute for Unique.

Bob

Hard to beat Win 231 for miderate cast bullets of any caliber

Too many powders will surpass WW231 especially in the 41. Those are pretty meager velocities for max charge with a 210. Unique will give you better than that.

Thanks Swifty, that's what I was looking for. Looks like that came from the Winchester 2003 manual, and that Capsticks site looks like a good reference

Bob

I should have mentioned that I also have some IMR4227 and Ramshot Enforcer for heavier loads. That 7.4 grain W231 load is right in the ballpark for what I am trying to do.

Bob

My standard .41 mag loads were 20.5 to 21.5 grains of Win 296. Bullets were 210 grain XTP and 215 grain cast SWCs. Good practice loads, good serious loads. Guns were Blackhawks, one each in 4-5/8" and 6-1/2" barrel lengths. Seemed pretty manageable. I never found any reason to screw around with reduced loads, just shoot what you plan to use.

Tom

The problem is that its operating close to 30,000 cup.

Tom,

I couldn't find any H110/W296 when I was out powder shopping, hence 4227. I also noticed that Western Powder had load data for 5 different cast bullets with Ramshot Enforcer, so I bought some because, you know, I appreciate the effort.

Bob

Hawk,

Why is that a problem, looks like 41 mag pressures go all the way up to 40,000 cup

Bob

They most certainly do, but IMO its counterproductive to run pressures beyond what the powder was designed for.

231/HP38 was designed for the 38 Special and the 45 ACP, meaning 23,000 CUP, max.. At the manual levels listed, its pressure swings vary. A lot if ambient temps are hot.

The other issue is your bullets. People have issues with cast bullets because diameter, hardness and lube ability matter with cast.

Cast bullets arent hard to figure out, but a powder that hits 1100 fps at 20,000 psi. is going to be easier on the bullet base and stress the lube less than one at 30,000 psi..

This means less apt to lead and shoot well over a variety of temperatures. Summer is here; running what should be a mid magnum level load with a powder at its edge of operating pressure and lead alloys, which hardness lowers/changes as ambient temp increases as well as greater lube stress, is not stacking success in your favor.
Many go to all jacketed bullets or paint, never really understanding why simple lead bullets have issues.

Unique range powders in the 41 Magnum, with the cast bullets you are asking about (.410-.412 diameter) should run to 1100 fps. in most any commercial .41 Mag I know of, with minimal issue.

Bullseye, 231, Titegroup and 700x level powders run to 1100 fps will be deyond designed operating pressure and makes accuracy and lead free shooting at high ambient temps less of a reality; with lead it can be a crapshoot.

Hawk,

Thanks for expanding on that, I think I am following your thinking there. I didn't realize that sweet spot for 231 was around 30,000 cup. Seems like from what you are saying CFE and Unique are in the sweet spot for this load. Probably why Unique is such a popular pistol powder.

What about 4227 for a 215 cast? Hodgdon has data for 210 and 220 jacketed and 245 cast with 4227. It seems like the cast 215 grain is the redheaded stepchild of their load lineup. No data for Universal or 4227.

I might end up being satisfied with CFE but it would be nice to have some options.

Bob

No,

The sweet spot for 231/HP38 is around 15,000-18,000 psi. or if in CUP about 18,000. 20k psi or 23,000 CUP is about tops. Sure, loads going higher exist, but that's not the pressure limits it was designed for. The load Swifty posted with 231 in the 41 Magnum was at 28,000 CUP. It will work, its published data, but its beyond what 231 was designed for and probably not ideal for what you are trying to do.

4227 will work too, but it was designed as a small rifle powder and works best above 30,000 psi and above 30,000 CUP. Reducing it below that level leaves a lot of unburnt powder kernels and heavier charge weights.

Unique, Power Pistol, AutoComp, AA#5, CFE Pistol and Universal are medium burning speed pistol powders or shotshell powders that perform well from 15k psi up to 25k psi..
With the bullet weight you are using, with these powders, getting to 1,100 fps. and being in the 20,000-25,000 psi. range is easily doable. Universal can be subbed for Unique. The others, excluding AA#5, I have subbed for Unique starting loads and worked up, as they are all a tick slower but function the same way.

The Lyman Cast Bullet Manual lists its 215gr. SWC-GC with 7.8 grs of Unique at 979 fps and 19,800 CUP. Max is 10.4 grs. for 1,214 fps at 36,100 CUP.
Its 212gr. PB cast bullet uses 8.2grs Unique for 998 fps. and 20,300 CUP. Max is 10.7 grs. for 1.217 fps. and 36,300 CUP. Extrapolating, but not exceeding maximums, Unique should be in the mid magnum level between 20,000 and 25,000 CUP and be at the 1,100 fps you seek.

This is a good baseline for mid magnum level powders and charges; using a chronograph, starting with 7.5 grs. Unique, AutoComp, Power Pistol or CFE Pistol, I would add half a grain and clock it until I hit 1,100 fps. If you need 1,200 fps or higher, then 4227, 296, LilGun, 2400 and H110 begin to enter the fray.

We're talking the 41 Magnum here; I'm not applying this to any other cartridge....

Hawk,

Thanks for that, good stuff!

That narrows it down to CFE Pistol and Universal from the stuff I have on hand.

I noticed one of the bullets from the Lyman manual is a gas check. Assuming a good bullet fit, and a 12 -15 BHN bullet, what level of pressure would require a gas check?

Bob