Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles OK, I want an ACOG... what magification?

The one i've been lusting after in the local gunshop turns out to be 1.5x magnification. That seems a little low for my needs; I want some magnification for really seeing that raccoon at night, or whatever... seems like the 1.5x is geared more for an entry carbine or CQB, right?

So I think I want 2.5x or 3x. I don't know if I want to step up to 4x. I wish I could put one of each on my rifle and mess with it; then I'd know!

I want a simple crosshair reticle.

Oh, the rifle is a Bushy M4. It's my rural property defense rifle. Ranges are on the short side, typically 25 yards and with a maximum of 60 yards. The vast majority of what I whack is possums or raccoons after the chickens, but dogs and cougars and crankheads could also be on the menu. So I want quick targeting, but I THINK I want a little more magnification than 1.5x....

Any thoughts?

-jeff

You're uses/reasoning don't add up to an ACOG.....but just wanting an ACOG is luckily enough of a reason by itself so buy whatever magnification you like......

You're uses/reasoning doesn't add up to an ACOG.....but just wanting an ACOG is luckily enough of a reason by itself so buy whatever magnification you like......

Besides, if you get a cool one, I might buy it when you're done.

I know I don't need a $1000 battle-tough sight for raccoons...

But they fit the AR like a glove, and unless I'm missing something, there's not another high-quality, short, telescopic sight designed for the AR that costs much less anyway, is there?

I hate how regular scopes look on an M4. I have a Burris 2x7 Compact (now they call them "Short Mag") scope that would work fine but... that's not what I'm after.

Besides I'll keep the damn thing for the rest of my life if it works. If I get 40 more years, knock on wood, then it will have cost me $25 a year to have the best scope made for an AR...

-jeff

Too bad the tritium won't last that long....

If I found a sweet deal (don't go there ) on an ACOG, I'd buy one so I want dibs on yours when you're done.

I was always a scope kinda guy until I shot Freedumb1s AR-10 w/ a BN Holosight - now I have 2 EoTechs and love 'em. Under 100 yards, I'd hate to be a thang....

The 4X works good up close too. The eye relief is close, but the "eye box" is huge and the FOV is very generous. No matter which one you get it'll be a compromise. To me a 4X would be so much more versatile than any other power.

Another neat thing you can do is add a red dot down the road.

Terry

You always have good stuff Terry!!

I'd suggest you expand your horizons a bit and visit the Trijicon website to see all they have to offer rather than just settle on what one dealer has in stock.

I work in distribution in this industry and Trijicon is one vendor I simply adore for their products.

There are some very versatile models to choose from. I am partial to the amber chevron reticle.

Newer Acog models with higher magnification and the Doctor Optic addition are an M4 owners dream.

For versatility - use carry handle sight for one ammo type and the optics for another. With the Doctor Optic you can sight-in to different ranges. And, the Doctor Optic is awsome for close range shooting.

All the Trijicon's are neat to me but the Acog is number one due to its versatility. The AccuPoint's are very nice on guns such as the Bushie Predator.

I plan to go higher mag with reticle of choice and Doctor Optic.

Suggest you not buy until you research this company's offerings a bit more.

TM

Thanks for the advice.

Don't worry, buying is not in the cards right now anyway. I've got time to research this. I put a Burris 2x7 Compact on the M4 and I'm fine for now. It's not ideal, but it is pretty good actually.

-jeff

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Jeff,
after reading your post I thought I would offer some thoughts on the subject. In the first pic, I am the good looking and modest guy in the middle (I am sorry I needed to obscure the faces but I am sure y'all can understand).

The M4 I am holding has a compact Burris 2x7 mounted on a 1" flattop riser. I use the gun in combat here in Iraq. I keep it on 2x and shoot with both eyes open, very much like a red dot optic. It is fast and easy with practice. When I need to take a longer range shot or observe something more closely, I simply dial it up.

In the second pic you will notice I am using an ACOG. It is an issued item. It is a 2.5x model. It has been my experience that the compact Burris is actually a better all around optic for varied ranges. The 2.5X is quite ofetn not enough magnification and offers no flexibility.

I realize that combat and racoon killin' are not the same but I and many other weapons savy guys in my line of work prefer a compact, low power variable to a fixed power due to the flexibility they offer.

When I am home I use my Burris on my personally owned M4 as my primary coyote/jackrabbit and do everything else truck gun and have for many years. This type of familiarity with the system has been advantageous both in the game fields and at work.

This year I will replace my Burris on my work gun with a low powered variable Nightforce that is similar in size but also features a lighted reticle.

In summary do not sell yourself short on your current optic, It may be better than you realize. The key is setting it up to have proper eye relief so that when you bring the rifle to your shoulder your eye naturally acquires the reticle.

It was interesting that the models you were discussing on an M4 were exactly the models I use on my issue and personal M4 on a regular basis.

I hope this helps

Very, very interesting Mackay!

Well, I must admit that while I hadn't planned on putting the Burris 2x7 on this rifle, now that it's on it, I really like it. Those 2x7 Compacts (I think maybe they call them a "Short Mag" now) have really great eye relief at all magnifications and are really solid. And bright and clear, too. They are kind of heavy, with a stouter main tube than a Leupold it appears, but maybe that makes them tougher.

I think I mentioned the problem I've had with flecks of stuff floating around inside it, though.

Sometime when I'm rolling in money I bet I'll still buy an ACOG, though, just for grins.

Stay safe over there!

-jeff

I couldn't put myself in the picture for security reasons (the racoons would find me!) but here's my M4 with the Burris:



I will say that I can't do well with both eyes open, even on 2x... really messes with my head. Unlike a dot.

-jeff

I believe you would find your current Burris MUCH more user friendly if you would move it forward about 2"s. If you will note in my first pic how far forward it is mounted to achieve proper eye relief.

LR

Good points and cool pics there S. Mackay!! I use my EoTechs 99% of the time but I also like having something with some magnification as an alternative.

Having a scope farther forward also helps me hit the latch on the charging handle quicker/easier. Here's my BM with a Vari-X II 3-9 sitting in an Armalite 1-piece mount. While it's not as sexy as some mounts out there, it only cost me ~$75 (new) and it works very well (but isn't designed for a compact)....

Hmmm. Maybe I'll try skootching the Burris forwards and see how that works.

Mackay, care to comment on the effectiveness of the .223 round in combat from an M4?

-jeff

Nebraska,

Looks like a rock solid mount to me. I have friends who use that mount and say good things. Eye relief looks just right too.

Jeff,

First let me say that my experience is not the "end all be all/final word" on the subject. That being said I am on my 4th tour here and very rarely are we not under attack here. We count time between attacks in hours rather than days, though I am in a somewhat specialized occupation.

As far as the effectiveness of the .223/5.56mm: The 223 is a very effective round when used with the proper projectile. A jacketed softoint or match hollowpoint projectile is devastating when it meets flesh. The majority of the 5.56 mm weapons fielded use standard FMJ or greentip AP rounds. The end result is akin to stabbing someone with an icepick. That being said, when you tag someone in the melon or spine they work wonders, but so would almost any other bullet.

We do not really need a new caliber weapon system, we simply need to use a better projectile. All the hype in the gunrags and wazoo websites cause many of us in the buisness to laugh and roll our eyes or groan.

Ammo is heavy and we are usually loaded down with more crap on our kit than we want, so the last thing I want in most cases is a heavier weapon and/or heavier ammo. Simply replace the projectile being currently fielded and that would be outstanding.

Now as far as our SAWs go I would just leave it as is, as the nature of their deployment varies with the nature of the end users mission.

That was a bit long winded, but I hope it was at least informative.

Mackay Sagebrush

I've got my "go-to" ammo in my safe loaded with 60-gn Partitions on the theory that they are going to expand, and they are going to penetrate. Too bad you guys can't have something like that, eh!

So you are not seeing the legendary tumbling and fragmenting of the FMJ round? Is a hit from the FMJ or greentip round something that an assailant can shake off (temporarily) and keep fighting, or does is at least get them to stop fighting while they bleed out?

-jeff

Jeff,

I would have no idea about tumbling rounds or any other stuff of that nature. Things get too busy. Bottom line is, sometimes with fmjs they fall fast, sometimes they dont. With match hp they seem to fall instantly almost always. Even with fmj's though when they get tagged but dont fall immediately, it seems to take the fight out of them.

Sorry that is not a great answer, but that is just from my limited perspective.