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Garry
Trump won !!!
Trying to live like a free man in the Communist Republic of New Jersey.
Love your country, distrust your government.
Democrats and the people who vote for them, enemies of America and a free American people
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yep, I got a press release in my e-mail, direct from one of the vice-presidents of Hodgdon.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,732 |
Garry
Trump won !!!
Trying to live like a free man in the Communist Republic of New Jersey.
Love your country, distrust your government.
Democrats and the people who vote for them, enemies of America and a free American people
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,713 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Well it makes sense actually. Hodgdon can’t sell most of their powders in the EU anymore. Banned in 2016. The Aussies where their most popular powders are made are becoming so far left that supply shipments can’t be depended on. So Accurate which is now made almost entirely in the US and Canada gives them local suppliers. Ramshot is shaky as they are almost entirely made at PB Clermont plant in Belgium, but this gives Hodgdon in roads to the EU market again since Belgium powder is EU compliant. Lovex or Shooters world is also EU compliant as it’s made in Czech Republic. Funny thing is that almost all of the Accurate powders from the 90’s till about 2008 were made at the same Lovex plant which is why so many of the Shooters World powders are compared to Accurate.
Swifty
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Campfire Tracker
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I hope Alliant and VihtaVuori hold out, wouldn't want Hodgdon to be a monopoly
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Campfire Outfitter
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As a Canadian, I hope that means better availability of powders. I suppose having Hodgdon owning most of the powder companies is a double edged sword. If they were to fall on hard times financially, let's hope those government contracts keep them afloat!!
I have to fight to get AA powders. Hodgdon and IMR are pretty much everywhere in Ontario.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/AP39Jhm.jpg)
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Campfire Outfitter
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As a Canadian, I hope that means better availability of powders. I suppose having Hodgdon owning most of the powder companies is a double edged sword. If they were to fall on hard times financially, let's hope those government contracts keep them afloat!!
I have to fight to get AA powders. Hodgdon and IMR are pretty much everywhere in Ontario. Now that’s interesting since 80% of their rifle line is made in Canada.
Swifty
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Yes. Most of the powder gets sent to your side of the border, packaged, and only a little is sent back here for sale. What gets here, combined with the low dollar, means we pay a lot for it. AA powders aren't carried by as many companies as IMR and Hodgdon up here. Hopefully, that will change.
For powders generally, Cabelas charges $60/lb for Varget, H4350 and a few others. It's cheaper to have it delivered from companies like Higginsons. unfortunately, they are low on powder like the rest of the continent.
We used to joke about the IMR powder cars rolling across the border, dumped in cans and coming back with a 300% markup.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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I don't think Hodgdon or Accurate make powders.
I think they just resell them.
But I have seen a picture of the Hodgdon family posing with semi tractor trailer rig.
But I have seen a picture of an Accurate building at least 10' x 10'.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Campfire Outfitter
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Steve, sounds like you are in the same boat price wise as some buds of mine in the UK. Bummer. But at least you can get Hodgdon where they got shut off. At that time it was the cheapest route over Viht, Norma and Lovex.
Clark,
Hodgdon never has and never will be a powder manufacturer. Always had it made elsewhere, surplus or pull downs.
Accurate has never made any either. Started out at IMI, went to Lovex plant in Czech Republic in the 90’s and now General Dynamics Canada/USA.
Ramshot has never made a powder either as noted earlier most is made in Belgium. Which also makes some of the Viht series.
Alliant may still operate a powder plant but I don’t know for sure as everything got muddled about 95-96 when Hercules sold the powder business to ATK. Do know that most of the Reloader series is made in Sweden with 1, think it’s 17 is made in Belgium.
Swifty
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I don't think Hodgdon or Accurate make powders.
I think they just resell them.
But I have seen a picture of the Hodgdon family posing with semi tractor trailer rig.
But I have seen a picture of an Accurate building at least 10' x 10'. I don't know of any major American "powder company" that makes much powder. Instead they contract for most of it to be made in various factories--and there aren't many in the U.S. anymore. The biggest I know of is the St. Marks plant in Florida--which is a subsidiary of General Dynamics, a major corporation that owns LOTS of international companies, including the plant in Quebec that has made most IMR powders for a while now.. As an aside, when Western Powders purchased the rights to Accurate Arms Powders a while back (as I recall around 15 years ago) they changed the name to Accurate Powders, and had them all specifically made to their specifications, primarily by St. Marks. So there haven't been any Accurate Arms/AA powders since then.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Well it makes sense actually. Hodgdon can’t sell most of their powders in the EU anymore. Banned in 2016. The Aussies where their most popular powders are made are becoming so far left that supply shipments can’t be depended on. So Accurate which is now made almost entirely in the US and Canada gives them local suppliers. Ramshot is shaky as they are almost entirely made at PB Clermont plant in Belgium, but this gives Hodgdon in roads to the EU market again since Belgium powder is EU compliant. Lovex or Shooters world is also EU compliant as it’s made in Czech Republic. Funny thing is that almost all of the Accurate powders from the 90’s till about 2008 were made at the same Lovex plant which is why so many of the Shooters World powders are compared to Accurate. No, not exactly. Some of the Ramshot powders are made by St. Marks. And "Ramshot" is not shaky. Western Powders has been doing very well for a long time now. It started as distributor for explosives for the local Montana mining industry, then expanded to distributing smokeless powder. After doing that for a while, the owner decided to distribute their own line of powder, which they named Ramshot. His name is Doug Phair, and I know him well. Among other things, he decided to build a piezo-electronic pressure-testing facility, to get good data for the Ramshot/Accurate powders. It has expanded a LOT over the years, and has been testing loads for other companies (especially bullet manufacturers) for quite a while. Through Doug's generosity, I have been able to have handloads tested several times. Doug is a year or two older than I am, in his late 60s, and would not be surprised if the sale to Hodgdon (which very well might include the pressure-testing facility) will allow him to retire.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Outfitter
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Steve, sounds like you are in the same boat price wise as some buds of mine in the UK. Bummer. But at least you can get Hodgdon where they got shut off. At that time it was the cheapest route over Viht, Norma and Lovex. I can't really fault any of the companies. We are a smaller market. There are approximately 37 million of us. Where I get angry is dealing with that artificial construct called the border. It costs less for a company located in Sault St. Marie, MI to send to LA, than to send the same item less than a mile across the bridge into Sault Ste. Marie, ON. I have often wondered if G-DOTs (Gen'l Dynamics) never set up a processing/packaging plant in or around Valleyfield, Quebec, where much of the powder is made. For those who didn't do well in geography in school, Valleyfield is about an hour north of the US. I would think they could save money not having to send it back and forth across the CDN/US border. Perhaps they have an agreement with the CDN federal government.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Steve,
I dunno--but do know one of the reasons the IMR Enduron temp-resistant, decoppering powders introduced a few years ago by Hodgdon (which has owned the IMR brand for a while now) is that instead of having to be shipped across the Pacific Ocean, they could be trucked across the U.S. border.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,753 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
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Steve,
I dunno--but do know one of the reasons the IMR Enduron temp-resistant, decoppering powders introduced a few years ago by Hodgdon (which has owned the IMR brand for a while now) is that instead of having to be shipped across the Pacific Ocean, they could be trucked across the U.S. border. That's right, John. And for a US based company, it makes sense to reduce the costs by having it made closer to home. What angers me is that trucking back and forth, and the tariffs that are levied by both federal governments for the sake of 60 miles. These charges are added to the price of the product on both sides of the border. The mfg plant is about an hour north of the US. Having a border crossing means both countries levy tariffs on the goods, the trucking companies that move it, and probably one or two other businesses that I have not included.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yep--but that's international schidt!
As with many products, the U.S. has given up a lot of manufacturing in-country for quite a while. This is Adam Smith's "invisible hand of supply and demand" (capitalism) at work, but it doesn't always mean there's a long-term advantage.
Last edited by Mule Deer; 10/01/20.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Campfire Outfitter
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Well it makes sense actually. Hodgdon can’t sell most of their powders in the EU anymore. Banned in 2016. The Aussies where their most popular powders are made are becoming so far left that supply shipments can’t be depended on. So Accurate which is now made almost entirely in the US and Canada gives them local suppliers. Ramshot is shaky as they are almost entirely made at PB Clermont plant in Belgium, but this gives Hodgdon in roads to the EU market again since Belgium powder is EU compliant. Lovex or Shooters world is also EU compliant as it’s made in Czech Republic. Funny thing is that almost all of the Accurate powders from the 90’s till about 2008 were made at the same Lovex plant which is why so many of the Shooters World powders are compared to Accurate. No, not exactly. Some of the Ramshot powders are made by St. Marks. And "Ramshot" is not shaky. Western Powders has been doing very well for a long time now. It started as distributor for explosives for the local Montana mining industry, then expanded to distributing smokeless powder. After doing that for a while, the owner decided to distribute their own line of powder, which they named Ramshot. His name is Doug Phair, and I know him well. Among other things, he decided to build a piezo-electronic pressure-testing facility, to get good data for the Ramshot/Accurate powders. It has expanded a LOT over the years, and has been testing loads for other companies (especially bullet manufacturers) for quite a while. Through Doug's generosity, I have been able to have handloads tested several times. Doug is a year or two older than I am, in his late 60s, and would not be surprised if the sale to Hodgdon (which very well might include the pressure-testing facility) will allow him to retire. John, I must have pushed a button. But fact is according to Ramshot on their website, 1 shotgun and 1 handgun powder are USA made whether St. Mark or not all other powders are listed made in Belgium. Accurate web site also lists country of production USA/Canada which is great, makes it easy to trace. Shaky, Yes due to overseas supply, unless the company website is lying. If it were me in this political situation I would get the hell out.
Swifty
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Good to know that the entire smokeless powder business has been in danger of collapsing for years, due to so many powders sold by Alliant, Hodgdon, Western, etc. being made outside the U.S. Have you warned those companies that they're in extreme danger if they don't "get the hell out"?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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"The Aussies where their most popular powders are made are becoming so far left that supply shipments can’t be depended on" is a bit like saying all Americans have their head up their ass and are ignorant, but i digress, presently it is only one confirmed  . The ADI plant which manufacturers powders for Hodgon is a WW2 era plant. Currently being refurbed and its impacting supply. Sporting rifle powders maynot ber their first priority presently it seems. DG shipment. Supplies can be short here too and politics does not come into the equation. Like you we also have a conservative government in office.
Last edited by W T; 10/01/20.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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WT,
Thanks for the inside info.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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