Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting why do all the new guys think your rifle needs 500yrds range

Barkoff

we are on the same page, yet by different methods really. I"ve BTDT on almost all weapons. There is a challenge to each method. I won't fault anyones choice if they abide by the 100% part on the shot.

A 20 yard bow shot can be very unethical but you won't see many if any pass it up, and it can be dependent totally on the attitude of the animal. I've had alert animals jump the string at under 20 yards, took a few years till I knew when to shoot.

You see its 2 things IMHO, don't forget to walk a mile in my shoes....a rifle shot at under 300 yards is very boring and the hunt is ok, but the shot is so mundane I no longer get the rush of adrenaline. I've killed enough with a bow that its great but same thing, it was down to finding larger and larger animals.... Currently my big thing is shooting muzzleloaders and that will wear off sooner or later too. Long shots are very interesting to me simply because it took me well over 10 years to be one of the top shooters in the nation at the 600 yard line with iron sights, its unbelievable to lay down and see what teh wind does every 100 yards or so, checking mirage, grass, leaves, trees, dust, and calculate what the effect is, to both elevation and wind and fire that first shot and its within 3 inches or less of perfect center. It took years to get that good. Much the same as it took me to get good with a rifle, pistol, bow etc...

One constantly is looking for challenges IMHO, because at some point simply going out and finding a deer is not all that fun, once found the hunt is over.

And finally mind my tag line.... I keep getting closer if I can, I only use what I know in the rare instance I need to. Much like the extra HP on my diesel truck, I don't pass much, but when I need to its there and makes it much safer. FWIW last pigs I shot in the spring, we spotted over 600 yards away and the kills were done at about 50 yards or less. Simply had the time and cover and wind to make the stalk. AND the conditions were actually almost perfect to take a 600 yard poke and drill one.

So to the topic of the thread, its the mag writers that demand the range to the newbies generally, hype the super mags etc.... sell more stuff. And as long as its out there, why not be capable, certainly if you want to limit yourself or anyone else to say 200 yards or less for example, there would be no need for anythign but muzzleloaders and rounds like the 30-30 or 308 or less. But having plan A,B, C is what I always try to do with everything in life. Doesn't hurt to be prepared, and it makes the 100 or 200 yard shot so much simpler and more reliable, than those that never shoot past 100 and rely on sandbags and a drop chart.....

Jeff

Jeff

I hate to say it, but I agree with Jeff. Commercialism is why hunters think they have to be able to shoot elk a mile away. Also, to compound the issue, is a general lack of ethics being taught along with hunting. That is NOT saying that experts making challenging shots is unethical. That means that not thinking there are requisite skills involved in making any shot with any given weapon is taking the game for granted, something that used to be taught. That is why I don't like seeing "how to" posts about LR hunting or ones that extoll the "rush" of making long shots on game on these forums. Any mass media discussion about making such shots with the current level of ethics training in the hunting community is unthinkable. Many hunters nowadays are self-taught, many of them with no regard or use for the animal involved. I've guided hunters that wanted to leave trophy animals lay after the kill. The "rush" was all they wanted. Those people disgust me, and if I had owned the camp, they would have been banned from returning. It is also true that given the proper training, practice, equipment, and environmental characteristics, hitting a paper plate size target at 800 yds is doable. I would never promote such a truth on this or any forum where overzealous, under-skilled, and ethically-uneducated hunters may be listening.

Bottom line is, if you discuss extreme hunting without trying to help fill the ethical dearth we live in, then you are being unethical in your discussion.

Paper plate sized elk targets, hmm, others must hunt elk that are of the midget category...grins

Dober

I hunted for years with "'ol meat in the pot" and took my share of elk with it and it was nothing more than a Sako 30-06 with a Zeiss 3X9 scope on it. One fall I was on some private property hunting elk and saw several head on the western perimeter of the ranch. This part of the ranch is wide open and about 1 mile accross.

My son and I started accross the gap, using any available cover to get within range of the elk, when a diesel Dodge pickup comes flying down from the top of the property and roars up into the draw just a few hundred yards away and a rifle comes out the window and several shots later the elk are all on the other side of the fence, running to safety. (until I wrote this I never realized til now, this must be why I don't like Dodge trucks!)

Anyhow, I told myself, I would never let this happen again. I ended up with a 30-378 Weatherby Accumark with a Schmidt and Bender 4-16X50 scope on it. With this combination and a 200 grain Nosler Accubond bullat at 3200 FPS, I knew that I could then shoot an elk at 600-800 yards, hit him where I wanted and make a clean kill. (Don't waste your time writing back about wind, curvature of the earth and all that crap, I know when or when not to take a shot!)

I also realized with this gun, I can take a shot at 100 yards as well and still get my game. On that same ranch 2 years later, I did make an 800 yard shot on a Mule Deer buck, ranged with a Swarovski range finder and hit it with only 1 shot. That is the longest shot I have ever attempted, even though the gun is capable of long range shooting. I have shot quite a few animals with it but they have still been at "'ol meat in the pot" ranges.

Very well articulated, Muleskinner.

Heck, that's twice just this morning

Casey

I think most longrange shot on animals are taken out of frustration, not due to skill. People keep seeing animals far off, and cannot close the gap. They are so worked up over wanting to kill something that they take the shot. Seen it before...

If you think you can ethically shoot elk at 600-800 yards,it is obvious you do not know "when and when not to take a shot!"

We have a bunch of slick tongued devils on this forum..Boy howdy!!!I guess I missed out on the ediquate part of posting..Just looking at the picture thread tells me most hunt in fairly flat ground compared to Idaho which also tells me,there is not much experience shooting 5-600 yards at 50-75% angles up or down hill.

Wish I could hunt the flatlands.

Jayco

It's just great to learn Idaho has the only mountains in the country. Thanks.

Jayco, if you and the other Idaho boys would like to beat your chests about what others do from a position of knowledge instead of your own fantasies for once, and have open enough minds to learn something, I suggest you look up Shawn Carlock right in your neck of the woods. Take his class. Learn something. Stop spouting BS about what you think. Do. And learn.

"Wish I could hunt the flatlands."

Highest peak in Colorado: Mt. Elbert--14,433
Highest peak in Wyoming: Gannett Peak--13,804
Highest peak in Utah: Kings Peak--13,528
Highest peak in New Mexico: Wheeler Peak--13,161

Highest peak in Idaho: Mt. Borah--12,655

Take heart, Jayco. From where I've been looking, Idaho is the flatlands...

Jayco �

I was out today with my hunting partner, shooting water jugs up in the mountains. The furthest we could set up was 95 yards, too many of those tall green things. Later we moved up on top of a hill, grabbed the bird guns and were tossing those orange round things straight out towards Pikes Peak. Wish you could have been there...

Sadly this thread gone completely off where it started and has sunk from the skill or responsibility of taking extreme distance shots to nit picking and whining to where one lives.
I feel partly responsible from my comments of shooting other than on flat ground. I Was NOT referring to just Idaho and every Western state and some in the East have their share of mountains areas. Don't ;et me leave out Canada you guys have some pretty good hills up that way too. Also I wasn't picking on Kansas any more then I meant just Idaho, it is just that Kansas like Texas has much different terrain than some area's.

Mozey, I do have a 30-30 and I did kill a deer with it, but I am not your long lost friend and the Winchester 94, like my Marlin 39, was bought because it was made the year I was born. I kinda thought it would be cool to shoot at least one animal with it. It was a long range shot, using iron sights, of 50 feet or thereabouts.

dogcatcher223; I have seen the people you speak of. However, some people can shoot circles around those slobs.
Do what you know you can, don't try it if you even think you can't, and be man enough to know the difference.

Well that's too bad 700, 'cause I was kinda hoping you was him; Ah well, I pretty much knew the moment you didn't try to bore me ad nauseam about how you wacked a cow elk with your 30-30 and at the same time try to relate it to your 'skins winning the Super Bowl...those were some good times...

++1

If this thread establishes anything it is that this business of 500 yard shooting should be left to the guys like Rost and Dober, and the like who have learned through years and the expenditure of thousands of rounds, how to do it. One thing is clear; if you are not burning a few thousand rounds a year at the distances you intend to shoot, you have no business taking long shots at any big game, regardless of the scope, cartridge, rifle, or how much technology you have "bought". The best long range riflemen/hunters I've seen are the guys who shoot NRA over the course, and Wimbledon, etc, due to their ability to "read" conditions, and these guys are often the first to stay off the trigger in a big game scenario because they can't be certain of a hit.

Comparing people like that to the average Ultra Mag purchaser is like comparing the local putting green champ to Tiger Woods.

As for the "need" to do it, just because you've shot every elk at under 250 yards does not mean that at some point you will not get an opportunity at long range. Those who always give the "canned" answer of "get closer" are not always right IMO, because this is NOT always possible. I declined to shoot at the biggest bull of my life because I had several hundred yards (app 550) of yawning canyon between me and the bull; I had practiced to 600, but could not be certain of the effect of a howling wind on the bullet at that distance. Discretion said don't shoot, but whenever I think of elk, I can still see that bull.....

To paraphrase someone else,there are a pantload of 500 yard rifles, but there are few 500 yard riflemen.

Bob-lots of good words there.

I practice as much as time allows, most years I try like heck to get 1K rounds thru my 700/Mashburn. Almost all of these are from field positions and most all are at range.

I go out and shoot in all conditions, partly cause I am a shooter and love to shoot. Partly cause I love to get away from town and partly to learns all that I can.

Just ask Brad, I go out in conditions where most are home watching the tube and staying warm.

Shooting in all sorts of conditions (both mentally and weather wise) teaches one what he can and can't do.

It teaches me when to drop the hammer and when not to. When I do drop the hammer, I do it with the total mind set of one round one kill irregardless of range and or conditions.

It teaches me what I can and can't do, what I know I can do slam dunk and what I should not attempt. And that holds true at 211 yds as much as @ 500 yds.

Make any sense?

I've passed up a lot of shots in the 100-300 yd range mainly cause I didn't know for sure I could do it in one and the follow up didn't look good. Kind of like playing pool, you gotta see what you're leaving yourself for a second shot.

Dober

Mark your post EXACTLY reinforces what I've been saying... the rifleman that shoots at range gets the discipline built-in to know when to shoot and when to hold back.

The same applies equally (or more) in the thick stuff.

I've killed most of my bulls by tracking them to their beds. It's how I like to hunt elk. Three seasons ago I tracked a 330+ class bull to his bed. He got up (range around seventy yards) and offered me his broadside... because he was so screened I held my fire and he eventually took off.

Staying off the trigger was one of the hardest things I've ever done but I had no confidence in my ability to put him down behind that much brush.

The same rules apply at long range.

Slob hunters are slob hunters no matter the range.

Ethical hunters and riflemen are just that no matter the range.

Some of the guys on this thread couldn't buy a clue for fifty cents...

"DWS" there Mac

Dober

I only read the first post. Here's a reason - this elk was taken at 610 yards by me. I'm not the guy in the photo, but he's holding my rifle.

My rifle usually suprises them in the timber at around 50 yards.

You may laugh at my rifle.. but the elk sure don't.