Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters .348 Winchester -- inline seater?

I'm in the process of restarting an old handloading project for my Model 71. My RCBS dies are pre-historic, and I've been reading about the benefits of inline seating dies. In fact, I been using one of Redding's micrometer seaters for .44 WCF cowboy loads for about the last 15 years... not because of the micrometer (which I don't particularly need/want), but because the inline seating seems to work much better with cast bullets and the thin-walled .44-40 cases.

So... given relatively stout .348 cases... would I really see a measurable difference if I switched from the current RCBS seater die to something like the Hornady Custom Grade New Dimension (a mouthful) in-line seater? If I were starting from scratch, I think I'd choose the Hornady dies, but... the RCBS dies are here, seem to work, already paid for... How to decide? If I can only get 3" groups with the RCBS-die loads, I should try Hornady? Or if I can get 2" groups with the existing dies, don't bother? Or...?

(I know Wilson offers a different kind of inline seater; not particularly interested in adding an arbor press to my bench...)

Is there some kind of cheap-a$$ way to just get at least a general idea about runout in this kind of very tapered case -- just to see, without spending an arm and a leg on a nifty comparator tool thing first?

-Chris

Can’t see the benefit for a hunting .348. I was able to get 2” groups from mine using 200gr Hornadys and I4350, about the limit of my ability with the sights, anyway.

Worry about something else. I have a list if you’re interested.😛

Seems to work, already paid for, hmmm. Think your loonie? Not as loonie as me, I paid for some custom .348 Ackley Improved dies from Whidden. They are purdy for sure. I doubt any moose or bear or caribou I shoot with them will know the difference between them and a Lee, RCBS, Redding, etc. die. But, I by golly had to have them cause I invested a bunch in the rifle and a bunch of 250 grain Alaska Bullet Works bullets and Starline brass. Should last thru me grandkids hunting career or the life of the barrel.

Yeah, my buddy uses the RCBS die set and he shoots 1" 3 shot groups with his 71. When I got mine, I got a bunch of reloading components with it, like a Lee factory crimp die. I loaded up ammo and we compared our rifles and loads. Mine was equipped with a bolt peep and his with a Leupold 2-7 (before it went tits up). I was able to shoot 2" groups at 100 yards, while he was putting them right in there at 1". Plenty good for our intentions, but I couldn't tell a bit of difference between the fancy die set and the regular ol RCBS die set. These aren't benchrest guns. If it were me, I'd keep the chidt as simple as possible while still maintaining a level of desired precision and accuracy you can live with. Knowing it is a lever action rifle that is likely older than you are (hell, mine was as old as my grandfather).

Well of COURSE there's some loony-ness involved.

But OK, guys, thanks for talking me down from the heights. I reckon I'll wait and see, maybe only fool with the idea of an inline seater if shooting results are so bad I can't stand it.

-Chris

When I had a 71, there were two major effects on accuracy: reworking the forend/magazine to minimize strain on the barrel (which many 71s benefit from) and making sure the bullets were seated reasonably straight. I accomplished the latter by using a couple of simple techniques mentioned in my articles and books with a set of of the cheapest Lee dies. My rifle had a Williams aperture sight, and between the bedding "adjustments" and seating bullets straight, a couple of handloads grouped 3 shots at 100 yards into around an inch.

All of this is detailed in a chapter in my first Big Book of Gun Gack--which also describes Ken Waters' experiences with the 71. He had benchrest gunsmith Seely Masker work his rifle over.

OK, John, you wore me down. I mostly actively resist buying hardcopy stuff, but... I have admitted to you in the past that I think you write "purty darned good." And then I guess I can't resist learning "simple techniques" that might help me keep from cluttering up the gun room any more...

So I just ordered all three "Gacks" -- since I reckoned I might as well go whole hog all at once.

I've had that Pet Loads article in mind ever since I started on the .348 project the first time... long time ago, circa '85-ish... and I remember Mr. Masker mostly said he did "not much" or something similar. I sure like the idea of doing "not much."

Thanks for chiming in!

Regards, -Chris

Chris, is your rifle scoped? Mine was all original. A 1937 long tang and I was happy with 2" groups at 100 yards with iron sights. If one can shoot 1" 3 shot groups with the factory iron sights equipped on the 71, they are by far a better man than myself. Now, if I were shooting 6" groups, I'd be looking more at the equipment I'm using for loading and maybe even the components. Depending on how old and original yours is, I'd strongly dissuade you from glass bedding it in any way. If you are concerned about maintaining its value and collectability. In your op, you ask what if you can only get "3" groups?" Are you comfortable enough in your shooting ability that you know you can shoot better than 3" groups at 100 yards with similar rifles? I also suggest loading some ammo up, go shoot it, and get back to us..

Not scoped. '37 long tang model, so I wouldn't be inclined to do that with this one. Could consider for a Browning repro, I guess, maybe a scout mount with a red dot... but I have no real need to go there...

I can usually shoot good groups with a scoped rifle from the bench, often sub-1" depending on rifle and load and so forth. I don't have a lot of trigger time with an aperture sight, though, so I'll just have to see how I can do with the bolt-mounted peep (#98A).

Suggestions on what actual target to use for groups at 100 yards? I'm eyeing the standard NRA slow fire target with 6-3/8" black bull. Or the 50-yard slow fire pistol target, with approx. 9" black bull... I know already that the fancy "scope" targets with orange bull or orange squares and so forth aren't so great for this application...

Anyway, yeah, that's my intention: load some up, have a go, see what happens.

Along the way, I've discovered I glossed over some steps my first time around with this one (back in the '80s). And have since learned stuff from reading.
- This time I wanted to resize with the decapper pin removed, so I could later expand the case mouth from the top. Which meant I needed a universal decapper. Ordered. Time passed. It arrived. I got on with it...
- Didn't trim the brand new cases in the past; recent discovery is that I also didn't have a .34" trimmer pilot. Ordered. Time passed. It arrived. I finished trimming this older batch or brass I'm (re-)starting with.
- Couldn't find my deburring/chamfering tool. Ordered. Time passed. It arrived. I finished cleaning up the case mouths.
- Didn't make dummy rounds and didn't work with cast bullets before; recent discovery is that I needed a universal case mouth expander. Ordered. Time is passing...
- Haven't selected new powders. Ordered QuickLoad, to aid that. Time is passing...

And so forth. I've got a supply of W760 and I can use some of that in the meantime to be sure I've got the sight generally adjusted... but I want to get all 7 of the initial dummy rounds made up and chamber-checked before I go too much further...

BTW, some of the learning curve is that this is the only rifle round I've bothered to handload. (IOW. not counting pistol cartridges in cowboy competition guns.) I just haven't shot/don't usually shoot the rest of the rifles enough to make it worth my time. So mostly I'm re-educating myself along the way, using the older press and not the Dillon 650 and so forth. Partly to incorporate modern "best practices" this time around, and partly to avoid learning bad habits.

-Chris

Chris,
You can take what my advice is worth, add 97 cents, and buy a cup of coffee at McDonald's. Stick with what you have focusing on reloading practices, finding the sweet spot for you barrel cleanliness (not too clean, not too dirty), and work on your shooting fundamentals. I have found the 348 to have respectable recoil and don't care to shoot more than 20 jacketed rounds in one session. Since I started shooting cast bullets with safe charges of Red Dot and A2400, I practice with it alot more. I believe these reduced velocity sessions allow me to focus less on recoil mitigation and more on shooting fundamentals.

Thanks, Dinny

Thanks, Dinny, that does actually closely align with my intentions. I reckon to focus on the four different 200-grain bullets now, save the 225s/250s for down the road (like if we have an attack of brown bears or bison or alligators or whatever here in the Chesapeake region).

Don't care overly much about high velocities. If I can get decent accuracy, good. If it happens all four 200s will shoot with good accuracy and to the same point of aim, excellent. That might be a bridge too far, especially if trying to include the cast/gas-checked 200, but I'll just have to see...

I have aperture sights on four other rifles, too: an AR, a .22 AR-wannabee, a Model 73 for cowboy competition (tang sight), and a Model 99 (tang sight). Aside from sighting in the AR and checking the sighting on the M99... I've not really used those. Actually, the .44 WCF cowboy rifle has several thousand rounds downrange, but I've only used the barrel-mounted rear sight for that, all very close range work.

-Chris