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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
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I recently shot a Red Stag that weighed around 450lbs.I shot it with a 300 Win Mag and a 180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip about a 100yards away.My load had a mv at 3100fps.I hit the onside shoulder and left a silver dollar size exit behind the offside shoulder.That bullet held up really well.I think Nosler has come a long way in improving the ballistic tips over the years.They beefed up the jackets and they must use a hard lead for the core.I was impressed by how little the meat was bloodshot around the wound channel.What I've noticed over the years is,if you have a cup and core bullet that has a soft lead core,it will shed a lot of weight and often produces a lot of very bloodshot meat.I don't know when Mule deer did this test but it is an interesting read.Because bullet makers tend to play around with bullets from time to time,I'm sure the results can vary as well. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/rifle-bullet-hardness/So, is there really much difference between the AB and the BT? I just looked up the 180gr .308 cal. you mentioned. They have the same sectional density and B.C., different colored tip, and the AB has a thicker jacket at the base and is bonded. I'm not suggesting that the BT doesn't do great things, which, as you have shown, it does, but why not merge them and call it the Nosler Accubonded Ballistic Tip or Nosler X-Bonded Accuballistic Tip or something? Or is there an advantage to the NBT over the AB? EDIT: I see now, the NBT is much cheaper.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,511 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
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They killed them the same way everyone survived serious infections before antibiotics. I wonder what they used to kill elk before the "premium" bullets came around? Maybe elk have gotten tougher over the years....
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today. Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,431 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
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I recently shot a Red Stag that weighed around 450lbs.I shot it with a 300 Win Mag and a 180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip about a 100yards away.My load had a mv at 3100fps.I hit the onside shoulder and left a silver dollar size exit behind the offside shoulder.That bullet held up really well.I think Nosler has come a long way in improving the ballistic tips over the years.They beefed up the jackets and they must use a hard lead for the core.I was impressed by how little the meat was bloodshot around the wound channel.What I've noticed over the years is,if you have a cup and core bullet that has a soft lead core,it will shed a lot of weight and often produces a lot of very bloodshot meat.I don't know when Mule deer did this test but it is an interesting read.Because bullet makers tend to play around with bullets from time to time,I'm sure the results can vary as well. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/rifle-bullet-hardness/So, is there really much difference between the AB and the BT? I just looked up the 180gr .308 cal. you mentioned. They have the same sectional density and B.C., different colored tip, and the AB has a thicker jacket at the base and is bonded. I'm not suggesting that the BT doesn't do great things, which, as you have shown, it does, but why not merge them and call it the Nosler Accubonded Ballistic Tip or Nosler X-Bonded Accuballistic Tip or something? Or is there an advantage to the NBT over the AB? EDIT: I see now, the NBT is much cheaper. I could be wrong,but I think they use the same copper jacket for the Accubond and Ballistic tip of the same caliber and bullet weight.According to Mule Deer's article,the lead cord hardness was different between the bonded Accubond and the non-bonded Ballistic Tip.See article: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/rifle-bullet-hardness/ The bullet manufactures could make changes to the core and the bullet could perform much different.I was surprised to see the 165gr Hornady he tested had the hardest core of the ones he tested.I used that bullet in my 300 WSM running around 3050fps.I shot four deer with that bullet and none of the bullets exited.The retained weight of the bullet I recovered was 40%.Meat damage was too massive for my liking,so I moved Hornady Interbond which is another very tough bullet.I've only been able to recover one 140gr Accubond from a hog I shot with my 7mag.The retained weight was 60%.I haven't been able to recover any of the beefed up Ballistic Tips because everything exited.I did find a picture of a 165gr recovered from the fifth water jug in a bullet test.It looks good to me.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~ As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,519 Likes: 1
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2005
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I have a close friend who lives in Missoula, mt. who has one big game rifle, in 30-06. He kills at least 1 elk per year and has been hunting at least 30 years. He buys whatever is on sale at his local wmt, usually power points or core lokts. He'd say premiums are not needed. However, for the hunter spending thousands, and coming from out of state, I'd say a premium bullet is a good choice considering the other costs associated with the hunt. One might call it cheap insurance.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,110 Likes: 4
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
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I have a close friend who lives in Missoula, mt. who has one big game rifle, in 30-06. He kills at least 1 elk per year and has been hunting at least 30 years. He buys whatever is on sale at his local wmt, usually power points or core lokts. He'd say premiums are not needed. However, for the hunter spending thousands, and coming from out of state, I'd say a premium bullet is a good choice considering the other costs associated with the hunt. One might call it cheap insurance. I'd say your close friend has proven you wrong!
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 30
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2021
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I hunt Elk with a 300 Win mag and a .30-06. My outfitter in Eastern Oregon recommends 185 grain Berger VLD hunting bullets for the 300 and 180 grain Nosler BT's for the .30-06. These have worked for me.
Last edited by Magilla26; 02/21/21.
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Joined: May 2014
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Campfire Outfitter
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I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Probably not. But it won’t hurt. I’m all about Ttsx for elk.
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2013
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Any one who hunts elk with a 45/70 and is consistent in harvest......gets my attention and respect.
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,315 Likes: 9
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Needed.....No! But, in many cases preferable.! memtb
This. I prefer Barnes, Hammers, Nosler.
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Joined: May 2017
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Campfire Tracker
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Spend $3k on an out of state elk trip and cut corners on a $19.95 box of ammo makes perfect sense, eh?
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Spend $3k on an out of state elk trip and cut corners on a $19.95 box of ammo makes perfect sense, eh? That is a load of crap. Any shot taken with a premium bullet that kills well can be matched by well chosen cup and core bullet. Same goes for any shot that wounds and any shot that simply miss's!
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 519
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 519 |
I agree with WAM. One could also add the scenario that here in Oregon it typically will take a resident 6 years or more to accumulate enough preference points to draw one of the better units. Some of the really desirable hunts may take 20 or more points. I guess in the end, everyone can hunt with whatever legal weapon and bullet they choose. I don't see why some people get all bent when someone has a different point of view. Steve
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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This discussion begins to look like the mask-wearing dilemma. Maybe you "premiums are good insurance" guys should start shooting two or three at a time.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You can tell who has shot elk, and who just shoots bs..
Molon Labe
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Joined: May 2017
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..... I guess in the end, everyone can hunt with whatever legal weapon and bullet they choose. I don't see why some people get all bent when someone has a different point of view. Steve Opinions are like a-holes. Everyone has one, just some are bigger and stinkier than others. Some just think anything posted contrary to their opinion is wrong or just plain stupid. Happy Trails
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Spend $3k on an out of state elk trip and cut corners on a $19.95 box of ammo makes perfect sense, eh? That is a load of crap. Any shot taken with a premium bullet that kills well can be matched by well chosen cup and core bullet. Same goes for any shot that wounds and any shot that simply miss's! And.....any junkyard tire that will hold air will get you there! But, a new one may do it a lot safer! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Jul 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Spend $3k on an out of state elk trip and cut corners on a $19.95 box of ammo makes perfect sense, eh? That is a load of crap. Any shot taken with a premium bullet that kills well can be matched by well chosen cup and core bullet. Same goes for any shot that wounds and any shot that simply miss's! And.....any junkyard tire that will hold air will get you there! But, a new one may do it a lot safer! memtb Yep, you should wear three masks, and get an anal swab daily. Just to be safe.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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Premiums seem like a good idea in big bear country.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: May 2009
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Just stack the deck in your favor man. That is what I do with elk/moose etc.
Actually I begun exercising this philosophy on deer too lately.
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