Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors 250 Savage Cast Loads

Been trying out some 250 savage cast bullets. I don't get out to the range that often so it's not the best shooting. Just using a stand with a sand bag pad. Would be nice to eliminate myself from the equation.

The rifle is a 250SAV model 1920 bolt action with bolt mounted peep. Rifle is in excellent condition including the bore.

Bullet molds are the Lyman 257388 spitzer and a 257464 loverin design. All loads are 16 grns of 4198 (from Ken Waters' book).
All shooting at 50 yards with 100 yard targets (I'm cheap and it's all I had).

1st target was the 257388. I was just getting started so I shot 5, then loaded, shot one more and decided to move the sights down and then shot 4 more. Not very good shooting. This bullet design doesn't come close to touching the rifle lands. Of course a lot of it's me.



Next group was a little better. Yes I had the target stapled upside down. And for some reason photobucket want to flip my remaining pics upside down.



Next was the 257464. I just happen to have this mold for my 25-20SS. Never had that much success with it but it was mentioned by Ken Water so I'd thought I'd give it a try. I seated the bullet just so it touched the rifle lands. 1st group wasn't all that bad.



2nd group started out OK but then I started messing up and trying too hard. Still two shots were close.



Last group had three in a tight group out of 5.



Out of all this I guess I learned that the 257464 was a bullet worth casting. I'll load more next time and try 100 yards and see what happens. Not the worst day out at the range.

Your doing better than i did with 250-sav.I tried different bullets that I casted and different powders, and bullets would keyhole or shoot erratic groups. I came to the conclusion that it's a hot rod, it needs to go fast. So I'm back to copper bullets in the 250 sav. there is still a need for casting I have a 30/30 44spec., 35rem., 30/06, 25/35, 357mag. 38/40, 30rem. I like your 80grn. spitzers

All in all not bad shooting.

A lot of the following may well be stuff you already know. It is as much a tutorial for newbie cast bullet shooters as anything.

I'll start by assuming your bore was scrubbed completely free of any traces of copper fouling? You must start with a squeaky clean bore.

The Loverin design is one that is hard to fail with. That said, have you made a chamber cast to get a an accurate picture of the ball seat (throat)? Have you slugged the bore and sized the bullet accordingly? What is your alloy? Were it me I would create an alloy that is relatively soft (bhn10-12) and size it .001-.002" over groove diameter, and seat it out to where it all but touches the lands- no matter how far out it ends up. (It may turn the gun into a single shot, but we're investigating potential accuracy here.)

Are you loads concentric? That factor is more important with cast bullets than with jacketed. If a lead bullet starts into the bore cattywumpus, it will go down the bore cattywumpus and fly erratically.

Lastly, I would experiment with faster powders than 4198. Cast loads in that velocity range tend to be more accurate, in my experience, when using faster powders. The faster powder will 'smack' the bullet harder initially causing it to more immediately conform to your bore letting it 'settle in' quicker for the long ride out to the muzzle. Try 10 grains of Unique, 13 grains 4227, or 14 grains 2400. If you're plagued with a lot of fliers (and you're certain it's not due to your technique) then, and only then, try fillers in in the air space between powder and bullet. PM me if you aren't familiar with them.

The last technique, and it is admittedly pretty anal, is to make a tiny mark in the mold cavity such that it'll show up on the finished bullet. Orient said bullet in the bullet sizing die the same way each time (using the mark as reference), load it in the case neck the same way each time (orientation marks on the cases help here too), and finally into the chamber in the exact same orientation each time. Like I said, pretty anal but you will surprise yourself how groups can shrink when doing this.

This is all to point up the fact that attaining the accuracy potential of a rifle by using cast bullets means paying a lot of attention to detail. That's why cast bullet shooting opens up a whole 'nother universe in the enjoyment of shooting. It is truly a thinking man's hobby.

The Loverin looks to have promise. I have been shooting cast in my 99EG 250 Savage this year too. When I seated a jacketed bullet backwards and chambered it I had .135" sticking out so I knew a Loverin/LBT LFN style would be the way to go. I expanded the neck on a case .001" at a time (starting @ .259") until I felt the case neck make contact with the chamber neck area when pushing in the case with my finger. I had to go all the way to .263" before contact was felt. So I ordered a 100gr. LBT LFN mould cut @ .262" from Veral Smith. The bullet is .820" long which is great for my 1-14" twist. I made a RCBS style neck expander @ .262" on my lathe and with brass spring back the necks are .261" which makes for perfect neck tension when seating. I have been loading 22.0 gr. of RL-7 or 21.0 gr. IMR 4198 with an oven heat treated bullet and Precision Reloading shotshell buffer over the powder. Accuracy has been excellent.

Thanks for the informative post and replies. I tried some cast bullets with gas checks a few months ago in .30-30 and saw more key holes than an old locksmith. Gun otherwise shoots just about every jacketed bullet very well. Sounds like I was correct in thinking there was going to be a little more for me to learn if I want to try cast. Thanks for the info. I'll get at it again one of these days.

Brad

The top rifle is the 250 1920 that I'm working with. I haven't tried jacketed bullets in it since I got it, and the bore is as good as new. The last I shot it I tried loads with Unique and perhaps SR4759. I was also just shooting the 257388 spitzer bullet only. I didn't get good results at that time. The load data was probably from the old Lyman 38 or 44 book. I've always sized to .258 just because I'm normally casting 30 cal bullets and .258 is the only sizer I have for 25 cal. I've been casting for some time now, mainly 30 and 38 cal. Also a lot of lead bullets for the Ruger Old Army. Still always something to learn, plenty of books to read as well.

ottsm,
those are fantastic looking rifles

I have one of the older 1-14” twist 99 Savages that shoots up to a 100 gr. Sierra with great accuracy. Longer bullets won’t stabilize worth a hoot and I have to really push the 100 gr. Sierra bullets to max. load levels(still within specs.) with those. 87 grainers like Sierra and Speer work great. Based on this experience, I’m thinking that I should use a pretty light weight cast bullet to get any kind of accuracy with light loadings. I have some 85 gr. flat point bullets from a “Ranch Dog” mould and another short 257312 mold that I’m going to try out. I’m going to sight it for 50 yds. as all I would ever use it for is plinking and small game. Hopefully, I will find something that will work.

Please keep us updated on your findings. I've been meaning to explore the realm of cast bullets in the .250 myself and plan to do so this summer. I've laid in a couple molds in addition to the old 85 grain Ideal mold I did some preliminary work with a couple years ago. (Initial results were encouraging but life got in the way. The recent acquisition of a Winchester Low Wall in .25-20 Single Shot got my juices flowing again in the quest for Quarter Bore knowledge.)

Oh, Mama, does this loonyness know no bounds?😀

+1

Never thought about cast bullets in my 1920s. I'm pretty sure I have an identical pair of those rifles: a pre 10500 1920 and a post 10500 Model 20. Storied guns.

Enjoy!

I have two Lyman molds for 25 caliber rifles. Only the 89 grain 257312 shoots accurately out of my 1953 Savage 99 EG. The other mold is the 111 grain 257325 which is much too long for the slow rifling twist of my 250-3000. The 257325 will not stabilize and keyholes in the 99 but is perfect in the 25-35 Win. I use IMR4227 with cast bullets in both the 250 and 25-35. Enjoy the journey down the cast bullet path, it is a rewarding endeavour for sure.

Nick