Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats What Should I Get A 270 WSM Or A 7MM WSM?

I have a Montana SS SA Magnum on the way. I was set on making it a 270 WSM but the more that I look at the bullets for the 270 the less I like the choice when comparing them to the 7mm lineup. Maybe it's the 120 gr Hornady VMax that has me hooked at the moment.

The rifle will have a 24" SS barrel by a top name and a synthetic stock. The scope will vary with the seasons as I switch them a lot. For instance in the spring the rifle will be a long range varminter and there may be something fancy on it. In the fall I won't be able to leave it alone and I will put a light 2X7 on it for game hunting.

As far as game bullets go there are plenty of them and Sierra does make a MK now in 270. For really big game I have a 300 mag and 375's and more.

So it's really just the varmint bullets that are bothering me. I already have a good shooting M70 in 7mm WSM. I don't mind a dupicate and I can always sell the 70 if the new one wins my heart.

What one would you get? Pick a barrel make and twist while your at it.

Don....never owned a 270 myself so I would lean that way if I were going to go small on my 1999SA mostly becasue the 7mmWSM doesn't do anything the 7mm RemMag doesn't already do (and you know I'm a big fan of short-actions) . The 270 WSM will fit a niche no other occupies.

I've ordered two of the actions.......one is going to be 257 WSM (Krieger barrel on order) and I'm not sure of the other but am leaning toward 416 WSM.

A person with a orderly mind might write down specifications for every rifle that he has or at least some of the better ones. I can't seem to get that much work done.

I am becoming more undecided by the moment. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> What I want that rifle to be is a very long range coyote rifle. I don't want it to be heavy or too long however. While I have a new .264 WM barrel on an old M 70 it's not shooting well at all on first try. I thought that would do the trick and if it would group it would of course. I also have a 7mm WSM M 70 Classic that's shooting very well. I could put a "McMillian" on it and scope it up. Right now that 7mm may be my best as it's shooting .6 MOA at 200 yds. My Swift is extremely accurate but they run out of steam near 500 yds.

Wildcats seem to accumulate. I have not considered the 25 WSM nor the 6.5 WSM but maybe I should. I have never had a .270 either and I don't crave particular calibers. I think far more of a particuar bullet for a specific job. Some how I dont see a lot of bullets in .270 that really turn me on. The 7mm has them and so does the 6.5 mm for sure. I am not a .25" fan and they may not carry the coal for as far as I may want to shoot. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I'd get the .270 and blast either 90gr Sierras at 3,700+fps or 110gr Hornadies at 3,400+fps....

For that matter I'm getting 3,285 fps AVG with 130gr bullets in mine.

Mike

The criteria has been refined to be a rifle for very long range shooting of coyotes. Now this rifle will be used for other stuff of course but a barrel has to be ordered to some spec and the bullet is the ultimate selection.

I am picking 800 yards as the decision range. Wind drift to me is the most difficult situation. It's given than almost all calibers etc have similar accuracy and only the 6mm is suspect at 800 yds due to it's low energy. I am not going to get a .25" no matter what but the 25/06 does pretty well in the comparison.

I used the Nosler #5 handbook for most of the information and selected the most appropiate Ballistic Tip bullet in each cartridge. Here are the bullets, MV's and Ci's and how they drift at 800 yds with a 10 mph at 90.

6mm 3250 fps . 95 gr .385=61.3" drift, 25/06 3116 fps 115 gr .453=51.3" drift, 264 WM 140 3150 fps .490=45.6" drift, 270 WSM 130 gr 3300 fps .433=50.9" drift and the 7mm WSM 3200 fps 140 gr .485 Ci=45.8" drift.

These comparisons were done on the LoadBase program.

As you can see from the data it really does not matter once you leave the 6mm. Now I am not going to get another wildcat or extreme overbore cartridge. This is just going to be a very accurate rifle that will deliver the goods at 800 yds.

I am not factoring in MK's or VLD bullets. I just don't trust them to expand. The actual bullet will be either a Sierra SBT or Nosler BT or maybe some other bullet that shoots. Other concerns are ricochets and noise. Recoil is not a concern in a rifle that will weigh up to nine pounds. At the moment the scope is a Leu 4.5X14 AO Tac. The first effort at mounts will be Weaver Grand Slam with a one piece base.

At the moment it looks like it's going to be another 7mm WSM. It's true that Norma makes 270 WSM brass and not 7mm WSM but the bullet selection in 7mm is better. The barrel may be a Shilen 24" or 25" on this Montana SA.

Don, I don't know how much long range experience you have, but I suspect you are going about it like someone who doesn't know much about it.
I wouldn't worry too much about flat trajectory. I would be concerned about a 9 lb. rifle "doing it all". You would be much better off with something heavier. Past 500 yds., wind drift and rifle weight play a big part. Recoil plays a part too. You will be shooting from prone, I assume, not from a bench.
I suggest you post this over on the Long Range board so the long range guys can advise you. What you are looking for is something that will kill coyotes at up to 800 yds. from a field position. Right ? They all use heavy, 12 lb. plus rifles with fully adjustable scopes and match grade bullets. Above all, they shoot alot to learn the wind and their loads. I suspect the Nosler Ballistic Tip would work, but I suspect the "lowly" MatchKing may give you an edge. Anyway, that's my two cents. E

E,

I never mentioned trajectory! I shoot so much that I can't feel recoil much with small calibers like 7mm's. The .375 does get my attention.

I started long range varminting in 1957 with my .243. It's not a 800 yd rifle but it's a 600 yd one and that's long range. We walked them in!. The scope is a 15X Ultra Varmint.

This is just for fun and not a competition. My competition rifles weigh 16 lbs not 12!

Thanks anyway.

Hard to extract perfection,from the perameters mandated.

For Vermin at the distances mentioned,I'd be looking at the higher BC projectiles to eek the specific cartridge's potential and pad the wind drift even further.

Something that may be of interest to you,is to crunch some of those higher BC offerings impact velocities at extended range,as opposed to the projectiles you cited. Some concoctions may interest you,in their remaining energies,drift values and trajectory curves and I think one would be prudent to weigh the whole enchilada in comparison to those projectiles you mentioned prior.

Case in point,is that you fret terminal affects at extended range and opt a lesser BC projectile to deliver that trauma. the 7Whizzum 140NBT combo at 3200fps impacts with sub 1800fps remaining velocity at 800yds.

As food for thought,the Berger 180gr at 2850fps drifts but 34" at 800yds,retains 1900fps and hits with over 1400ft lbs of energy. Them is all good things IMHO.

Point bein',if wind is your biggest concern,bullets such as this will certainly help defeat that atmospheric monkey wrench. They'll do so with more remaining Oooomph as well.

Just another angle of evaluation,so a guy don't paint himself in a corner,without stewing on all viable options. With that being said,it would suprise me if anyone doted on the 120gr V-Max in 7mm,more than I................................

I have been doing one and two shot "groups" to find the best way to prepare a barrel so that the first shot will hit right on. This is most important to me.

Last week I fired a 120 VMax and then another at 200 yds. I could not find the second hole. I got the targets and as far as I can tell it went in that same hole! Today I did the same and this time the second shot made the hole just a tiny bit bigger. The load is 71 grs of RL 22 and a 215M. Velocity is 3450 to 3500. It's hot but so sweet.

I will have some feedback soon on "To clean or not to clean, that is the question"?


IMHO I don't think a MK will expand on a coyote at 800 yds. In any case the answer will be the same as to cartridge selection and that is that it won't matter much as long as everything is in harmony.

Ah, yes. The old "walk them in" routine. I've done that for years. Works on rocks better than anything else. Lots of satisfaction to pop something well over the usual range. The trouble is I don't learn much. For coyotes, I've noticed they don't stand around and let you shoot at them. In fact, they don't stand aound at all if they see you. Of course, if you get far enough out in the desert, I've had young coyotes come to the smell of cooking bacon in the morning. That's one way to know you are really out in the boonies. E

Stick,

Thanks for feedback on other options. It's true that the 180 Berger 7mm has a fantastick Ci but it requires a 1-9 twist. The 1-9 could be done but the basic parameter is the short action and the biggest case not all that big in 7mm. Case capacities less than "overbore" don't do all that well with very heavy for the caliber bullets.

Looking at the Sierra manual the 7mm WSM can get a 175 gr up to 2850 fps so maybe the 180 will do 2800. A long barrelled 7mm STW or RUM would do a lot more with that heavy bullet. Maybe 3100 or more.

This rifle is just going to be a nice medium sized all around short action custom. It's never going to be a long tube ultimate. I am just going to have it made right. I think I posted somewhere calling it an "extreme range" coyote rifle. It's not up to it. It's too small. Maybe it will be a 600 yd coyote rifle. That's still long range.

I'm mulling over the notion of a short action SUCKS for another Play Toy and the 7 Whizzum is in the running.

It would be an "all arounder" of sorts and I'd not go heavier than a #3 contour at 24 inches long. My focal point would be the 120 V-Max and I'd not stop at 600yds(grin).

Thoughts are to put it in a McMillan Remington Classic pattern and poke a 3.5-10x 40mm on top with turrets.

Whatever Vermin escaped it's wrath at long distance,could poke blame on me,not the projectiles. When a guy gets to banging around with one load,it isn't all that troubling to put the correct amount of English on the shot to connect with.

I can happily do the 120 V-Max Thing...........................

I hesitate to say that some cartridge, bullet or load is more accurate than another but that bullet with 70 or more grains of RL 22 shoots so well that I am upgrading the stock for the rifle and spent money on an even better scope.

A week ago I fired two shots at 200 yds. I check every shot before I fire again. I could not find the second shot. I went down and got the targets and there was no flier anywhere. I forgot about it.

A week later I fired a second shot again with the same load and I could not find the bullet hole again. This time however the hole looked bigger. I went down and got the target and this time I could see that the other bullet was off center by a gnats hair.

The rifle with it's 24" barrel is greater than the sum of it's parts. Whatever it weighs may matter but this rifle is a long range varmint rifle and a big game rifle that does not kick ones head off.

You have to know when to be happy.

I've been a champion of that projectile since it's first availability and concur on it's penchant to yield itty-bitty holes on targets.

My recent 7SAUM has very much impressed me with what it achieves performance wise and the stunning accuracy the Factory SUCKS barreled action delivers on the average.

'Tis that rifle in particular and my lonnggg love afair with the 7mmRemmag in general,that has me craving like performance in a smaller package(7 Whizzum). To scratch that itch,I believe a modest taper and length will capably extoll the virtues of that cartridge and allow great things to happen easily for the tasks I have in mind.

Then a guy can roll up his sleeves and poke a 120XBT in there for when tag punching is on the menu.

I've been a hopeless 120gr Slut in .284" diameter for a long while and doted on the Ballistic Tips for play. It has been my experience that the V-Max is more accurate and that is where I'm at now(and happily). The 120 is great in the 7-08,284,280,280AI,7SAUM,7mmRemMag and STW. At least they were in my rifles so chambered.

I can't imagine owning a 7 Whizzum and not giving the V-Max a fair shake........................

My first 7mm was a 95 Mauser. My dad got a German made sporter that had a rotted out bore and we sent it out to some barrrel maker by the name of Diefenbacher? in Wisc. He put on an 8 groove barrel. We blued up the old gun and put a Lyman 48 on it and a Bishop stock. This was cutting edge for the early 1950's I suppose. I remember carrying two rifles at once woodchuck hunting. I had the 7mm with the irons for short shots and my 222 with a scope for long shots! That got old quick.

Then I missed a buck with three shots in the dawns early light with another peep sighted rifle as I could not see the front blade in the dim light. That was the last time I hunted game with irons.

The 7mm's and 30/06 have about the same effect on medium sized game. One is as good as the other. The 7mm makes a tiny bit better long range varmint rifle.

I shot the 120 Ballistic Tips and the 120 VMax grouped way better. There is no sense in looking back on that one.

Sometimes there is more than one right answer to things and for sure 7mm is a right answer.