Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Training with the handgun

Glad to see someone else gets it.

Teal... I have not answered your question as asked, my bad.

Are you still in Green Bay? I have a trainer in mind in the Ozaukee County area you might want to look up, depending on what kind of training you’re looking for. PM me if you care to discuss.

I took Ayoob's advanced stressfire course a long time ago.

It was good for getting your draw down and fast hits, which is all it claimed to be.

Blue's suggestion of seeking out a local USPSA group would be a great start for anyone. Watch what normal people can achieve and note the emphasis on safety and gun handling fundamentals and then tackle the process of mastering the fundamentals of marksmanship. Compete as soon as possible and you will quickly learn that everyone is watching and judging you on 2 things; muzzle awareness and finger in the right place at the right time. A competent USPSA shooter that can teach will prepare you to learn the tactical stuff.

many popular gun schools are bastions of macho posers. If you can find a real teacher to lead you through the fundamentals in one on one training you will be able to advance much quicker and be able to choose your next level of advancement from a realistic knowledge base.

Stay humble and leave your ego at the door.


mike r

Forgot to mention a few of the people I've trained with.

A guy, and I can go find the cert if somebody is interested, from Gunsite who struck out on his own. IIRC he also had a brother who taught there...? It was very early in my shooting career and was exactly what I needed. Very drill-focused and motivating. Pretty outside the box at the time, his road classes had everything he couldn't / didn't teach at Gunsite.

Ben Stoeger. This was several years ago and I wasn't equipped for it. When I left I was a better shooter, through sheer volume. I shot 1990 rounds in two days, then blasted the last 10 into the berm just because. The class was match specific and had almost no "how to shoot" in it. I was in way over my head. I understand that his classes are much more structured now and contain a lot more "how to shoot", probably as a result of his government contracted training. And when you leave he gives you a personal training plan based off drills in his book, which he also gives you. I think he also has a how to shoot class. Have thick skin or at least show up with the understanding the guy is on the spectrum.

Frank Proctor. Already talked a bit about him.

Max Joseph, a guy out of California. I've taken shooting and tactics classes from him. Very intense guy. Received one of my best shooting compliments from him. Lots of drills. Lots of shooting. Precision focused shooting.

JJ Racaza. I shot with him earlier this year in a competition specific class. Excellent teacher and excellent shooter. He's seen the competition and tactical side of things. Our class was competition focused but I believe he has shooting classes too. I highly recommend him. The class was very well structured and when you leave you have a plan his outline for the class to know how to build a training program for yourself.

Anyone else I've shot with aren't big enough to be known.

Teal if your out West look up Houston Shaw in Idaho. More Central South? Midsouth institute of self defense shooting started by Houston's dad John Shaw.

I dont know, do know it has to be a mindset, firmly grip the weapon, stay in/behind the front sight, empty and reload, the right mind can be trained, a little crazy may help too, for example Joe Frazier and his son Marvis, Joe had it, Marvis didn't, he got his Mom's mind.

Do these trainers accommodate boomers? Rest periods, medication brakes, nap times etc etc 😂

I'd look at Rob Vogel, Chris Cerino, JJ Racazza, Dustin Ellermann (especially for youth), or Riley Bowman...

The Self brothers? Ed and Giles? Both GS instructors---ex LEO's and, at least Ed, ex Military also.

I just found the certificate. It was Jack Furr.

What is this "it's a mindset" thing? One of my buddies has started blabbing that statement, having recently taken a couple of training classes taught by former DOD "operators".

Great advice. You’ll get more out of it if you’re mentally prepared to be trained. Even if you may not agree with something, just tuck it away and it may resurface when you have more context. There’s always one guy who wants to out-talk the trainer.

Mindset should be things like situational awareness, emotionally preparing for violence, stress inoculation, and such.

Instead, it's become the fallback buzzword for people to throw around when they know they can't shoot.

I've got some extra time so I thought I'd add some tips for those guys who do go to a formal training class...

Clean and lube your gun before you go. Replace wear parts if they're close to the end of life. Bring spare parts that are prone to breakage and tools to replace them.
Bring a spare gun. Or two.
Bring spare parts for your gear as well. And blue loctite.
Rain gear, sunscreen, and chalk for your hands if it's hot and you're prone to sweating.
Bring all your mags. For a rifle class, bring them all preloaded.
A little folding stool makes a big difference at the end of several days.
Excedrin and Imodium. These are non-negotiable.

I always have a dump pouch on me. A little one just big enough for a nalgene water bottle. In it I stow empty mags, pens, and a steno pad. Take notes on everything. Draw diagrams of the target setup and drills. At the end of the day you WON'T remember all the things that made you say, "Ah-HA".

I don't have anything to add other than to say: I've enjoyed the heck outta this thread!

Me too. I appreciate everyone for the answers, much to think about. Just wanted to talk about the why - not as much as the what - if that makes sense.

I'm not currently looking to take a course this summer (other things going on right now) as it would all entail some serious travel etc. But I keep a mental "roladex" of things I learn here so I'm ready when it's time.

Appreciate all of it.

First off, I appreciate your attitude and honest self appraisal---you're already ahead of the Dunning-Kruger effect and therefore will probably benefit from any number of instructors. I would also encourage you to not dichotomize training into "target shooting" and "self defense stuff," as in reality for entry level training they go hand in hand, depending upon what you mean by "self defense stuff." Don't get too hung up on feeling the need for an instructor with a military or LEO background to teach "self defense stuff." The WORST handgun training that I ever received was in the Marine Corps and anyone that's spent any amount of time in law enforcement (or conducting "combat" oriented shooting matches) will tell you that although there are some wonderful exceptions, most cops can't, won't or don't shoot worth a crap. In the early 80's a number of the special operations forces, Seals, Delta, etc. took training with Ray Chapman, Bill Wilson and John Shaw--Ray, although underaged, joined the Marine Corps at the end of WW2 but if he was ever in combat he never acknowledged it and Bill and John had/have never heard a shot fired in anger. Still the organizations came back for second and third classes refining their combat tactics from these "target shooting" guys. If an instructor does much more than casually relate their background experience, I suggest that you consider it a red flag. JMO-YMMV.
.....not sure how to address your "I don't think I am ready...." comment---if you mean skill wise, let me dissuade you from feeling that way. At Gunsite, I've seen students show up that literally didn't know from which end of the gun the bullet exits (one was a young girl in a witness protection program)---by the end of the week she was gun handling and shooting (they're different) as well as many students that had been shooting for years. DocRocket and I took a class together at Thunder Ranch and I've known Clint for years and have taken 4 or 5 classes from him. He's more intense than anything you'd get at Gunsite (he can be like R. Lee Emery on a caffeine rush), but he's a great diagnostician (if there is such a word?). Don't feel that you need to be particularly skilled prior to taking a class from either source. The benefit of taking a 5 day class (like at GS or TR) is that most people get worn down by the third day---IMO, the last two days are where the skill development takes place and new techniques start to feel more intuitive. 2 and 3 day classes are much easier to take, are less expensive and require less ammo but IMO have less lasting effect.
...Blue's suggestion about going to a USPSA (or IDPA) match and getting suggestions, is a great idea. Also, don't wait until you feel "confident" to start shooting with them. You'll learn more in one day than you will in 6 months of watching youtube videos. Don't let the fear of developing a bad habit keep you from practicing on your own.

"...I can not explain...." perhaps the greatest purpose of training is to develop the ability to self-diagnose. With your attitude, you'll benefit from training more than most.

One last note.....don't equate finding a trainer with finding a spouse......it's not like you only get one (or at least one at a time). Some great trainers just won't be great for you, but may be wonderful for others.....i.e. I don't think that I could ever take a class from James Yeager or Rob Pincus, but I know guys that have taken classes and like both of them.

Thank you for taking time to break down my post, I do take it to heart.
As a side note, I have booked (2) training classes at Royal Range in Nashville. Turns out I know the head instructor there, and go to church with him. He was on the Metro Nashville Police Dept at their academy and was their head instructor. I guess he retired and is now the head instructor at Royal Range. He is the one that taught the class I took for my CCW permit years ago.
Anyway I have signed up for Defensive pistol 1 and Defensive pistol 2 classes to be held next month.
This is a start and I can build from what I see there and from other suggestions I have read in this post.

Crazy thing, I am both nervous and excited about the classes and I have never taken but one firearms class (other than my CCW class) in my life and it was a major bust. It was taught by a really good skeet shooter (it was a skeet shooting class) that was on the national level. I learned one thing from that class, and that was, just because you are a great shot, does not make you a great teacher.

.....good for you Pullit....I've heard good things about this range, I'm sure that you'll learn a lot.
......absolutely....a more insightful comment has never been spoken!!! There are a few exceptions. My wife and I retired to Wyoming and built a shooting range on which I host outside trainers. I've hosted Jerry Miculek twice and Rob Leatham last year and will probably again in 2022. They're both superb instructors with Rob being the finest that I've EVER experienced except for perhaps his wife Kippi. Both teach "outside the box" stuff that's antithetical to what most traditional instructors preach. One of the greatest losses to the shooting world (other than the early demise of Pat Rogers and Louis Awerbuck) is that Dave Spaulding is hanging it up next year. His mentor Ken Hackathorn has also quit instructing which was another great loss. Still, there are other good instructors that are appearing in the teaching arena to take their place and your starting at Royal Range will set you on the road in good fashion. Best of luck.