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What did it square at and size of the skull? I don't know the details but I believe it was under 8'
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"WWPD": What would Phil do? Young bears can be curious and having them come within 10 yards is not unusual. If the client had decided the bear was unacceptable there was no reason to stalk it. Stalking a bear you don't want is sort of like kissing your cousin. I have had numerous great clients over the past 42 years and the one I just finished hunting with was one of the most fun and reasonable I have had the pleasure of guiding. He was fit and well equipped and had hunted peninsula brown bears 5 times previously with other guides and only taken one small bear. He told me he wanted a nice boar, something over 9 1/2 feet, and as the hunt progressed was content to pass on mature 9 foot boars. Although we saw larger old boars we were not able to make stalks on them and he has rebooked for another hunt. The end result is that the hunt belongs to the hunter. The guide is hired for their knowledge and advice. It's the hunters choice whether to take it or not.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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If your "friend" didn't want the bear then he should not have shot it and let the guide shoot it. If he wasn't an Alaskan resident he had to have the guide with him and a problem/aggressive animal is the guide's responsibility unless it is actually attacking/mauling someone. Same thing applies in Africa, let the PH sort out the problem animals because if the client shoots without being told to then they are on the hook for the trophy fee. Yep. Yup. It's a business transaction. If the guide talked him into it just to avoid paperwork that was awfully unprofessional. I hope $25k wasn't a lot of money to the sport.
Living in a world of G17s and 700s, wishing for P7s and 202s
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[quote=Sitka deer]
it depends on the area... but also, when clients are fussy about the size of their bears the success rate falls pretty fast
[quote]
That’s hunting. EVERY guide I ever hunted with said the same thing. End of the day, you squeeze the trigger you made your choice.
For me
I would rather come home empty handed.
We don’t know how this bear hunter would have felt if he came home empty handed.
I have been on one unsuccessful guided hunt for mountain goats. I had a chance on a small billy , but he was small and would have fallen off a cliff hundreds of feet. And a nanny I could have legally and easily killed. I wasn’t shooting a nanny no matter what. No regrets on my part.
The end of the day, he didn’t have to shoot the bear.
No matter what he and the guide talked about,
Decades of voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us just that.....
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If your "friend" didn't want the bear then he should not have shot it and let the guide shoot it. If he wasn't an Alaskan resident he had to have the guide with him and a problem/aggressive animal is the guide's responsibility unless it is actually attacking/mauling someone. Same thing applies in Africa, let the PH sort out the problem animals because if the client shoots without being told to then they are on the hook for the trophy fee. In the heat of the moment, they really didn't have much time to sort out the "what if's". At ten yards and coming, I guess he thought he had run out of options. BS. Don't buy that. If the bear was a real threat then there would be nothing to discuss since the guide would have been firing. Since the guide didn't shoot then your "friend" decided that was the bear he would tag. And I saw your post about the guide not wanting to bother with the paperwork and that is BS as well. A guide would much rather do that paperwork than do the paperwork on an injured client! Most areas with the big bears have a built in buffer quota for a problem animal or two and the game dept would be accommodating if it was an emergency kill and was on the up and up. I once was hunting along the Limpopo River in RSA along the ZIM border and we were chasing a herd of blue wildebeest trying to get the herd bull. We were in a brush thicket and busted a pair of breeding white rhinos. The female ran straight away from us and the bull came right at us. Not charging, just getting out of the area. Rhino have lousy eyesight and tend to go in whatever direction they are heading. This bull was coming straight at us and looked like a battleship coming through the brush. Trophy fee on a rhino was $55K at the time so there was NO way I was shooting that thing. At about 15 feet it saw us and veered off into the brush. I asked the PH how close he was going to let it get and he pointed at a branch on the ground that was exactly 2 paces away and said when it go to that branch it was going down. If a professional hunter or licensed guide cannot handle the situation at 10 yards then they shouldn't be in that job. My bet is the guide wanted to wrap up that hunt early for some reason and this gave him a legitimate reason to do so.
You get out of life what you are willing to accept. If you ain't happy, do something about it!
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Thanks Phil! The bear came into camp, they tried to put their tents between themselves and the bear, throwing rocks and yelling. Not sure what else they could do, bear kept coming and was shot at actually 9 yards as he tells the story. It was a beautiful bear and my friend had a great overall experience, just not the bear he had hoped for. I was mostly curious on what would be appropriate in a situation like that.
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Bragging rights to a large animal is not a good enough reason to hunt them and then shoot shoot an animal you can't be happy with because you think your entitled to a bigger one. Mb
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
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If your "friend" didn't want the bear then he should not have shot it and let the guide shoot it. If he wasn't an Alaskan resident he had to have the guide with him and a problem/aggressive animal is the guide's responsibility unless it is actually attacking/mauling someone. Same thing applies in Africa, let the PH sort out the problem animals because if the client shoots without being told to then they are on the hook for the trophy fee. In the heat of the moment, they really didn't have much time to sort out the "what if's". At ten yards and coming, I guess he thought he had run out of options. BS. Don't buy that. If the bear was a real threat then there would be nothing to discuss since the guide would have been firing. Since the guide didn't shoot then your "friend" decided that was the bear he would tag. And I saw your post about the guide not wanting to bother with the paperwork and that is BS as well. A guide would much rather do that paperwork than do the paperwork on an injured client! Most areas with the big bears have a built in buffer quota for a problem animal or two and the game dept would be accommodating if it was an emergency kill and was on the up and up. I once was hunting along the Limpopo River in RSA along the ZIM border and we were chasing a herd of blue wildebeest trying to get the herd bull. We were in a brush thicket and busted a pair of breeding white rhinos. The female ran straight away from us and the bull came right at us. Not charging, just getting out of the area. Rhino have lousy eyesight and tend to go in whatever direction they are heading. This bull was coming straight at us and looked like a battleship coming through the brush. Trophy fee on a rhino was $55K at the time so there was NO way I was shooting that thing. At about 15 feet it saw us and veered off into the brush. I asked the PH how close he was going to let it get and he pointed at a branch on the ground that was exactly 2 paces away and said when it go to that branch it was going down. If a professional hunter or licensed guide cannot handle the situation at 10 yards then they shouldn't be in that job. My bet is the guide wanted to wrap up that hunt early for some reason and this gave him a legitimate reason to do so. It's easy to arm chair this one but it all happened very quickly, they only had a brief minute to discuss options but the guide made it clear that he did not want to shoot the bear and my friend (his first bear hunt) felt like his options were limited, he shot it under ten yards, in the chest, coming straight on. As I mentioned in my original post, my friend is not unhappy with the hunt or the guide, it was an overall great experience.
Last edited by 257Bob; 06/01/21.
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Bragging rights to a large animal is not a good enough reason to hunt them and then shoot shoot an animal you can't be happy with because you think your entitled to a bigger one. Mb no entitlement expected..
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I see it this way, if hunting allowed for catch and cull like fishing, people would take a bigger animal and let the little one go. I don’t see a reason to change the desire for a better animal just because it’s hunting rather than fishing.
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He is not unhappy but it was a tremendous expense, $25k+ all in, travel and two
weeks away from home and work, that's a lot of money to shoot a young bear. Poor baby...... Is this a case of buyer's remorse? He experienced something that the large majority of hunters only dream about simply because they can't afford what your buddy could afford to do. You and he both need to put your big girl panties on and quit defining a successful hunt based on animal size. Is he expecting part of his money back based on what he wanted to shoot versus what he did shoot? Sheesh....!! This post drips with envy. And it isn't a good color on you bayourover
Montana MOFO
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"WWPD": What would Phil do? Young bears can be curious and having them come within 10 yards is not unusual. If the client had decided the bear was unacceptable there was no reason to stalk it. Stalking a bear you don't want is sort of like kissing your cousin. I have had numerous great clients over the past 42 years and the one I just finished hunting with was one of the most fun and reasonable I have had the pleasure of guiding. He was fit and well equipped and had hunted peninsula brown bears 5 times previously with other guides and only taken one small bear. He told me he wanted a nice boar, something over 9 1/2 feet, and as the hunt progressed was content to pass on mature 9 foot boars. Although we saw larger old boars we were not able to make stalks on them and he has rebooked for another hunt. The end result is that the hunt belongs to the hunter. The guide is hired for their knowledge and advice. It's the hunters choice whether to take it or not. Thank you.
Old guy, old guns.
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Thanks Phil! The bear came into camp, they tried to put their tents between themselves and the bear, throwing rocks and yelling. Not sure what else they could do, bear kept coming and was shot at actually 9 yards as he tells the story. It was a beautiful bear and my friend had a great overall experience, just not the bear he had hoped for. I was mostly curious on what would be appropriate in a situation like that. Young, pre-pubescent bear are very curious but easy to scare off. They also have beautiful fur and over the years I have had a handful of clients who actually choose to shoot them. It's hunting. The client I just guided showed me a photo of the bear rug from his previous hunt . It was a beautiful rug but he knew he wanted something much bigger.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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so if the guide didnt want to do the DLP paperwork did he have some concern that the investigation may have determined the bear did not need to be shot?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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so if the guide didnt want to do the DLP paperwork did he have some concern that the investigation may have determined the bear did not need to be shot? Sort of my thought as well. The whole thing smells mostly like the guide simply wanted to get out of the field and told his client to take a bear the client didn't want to take at that point of the hunt to expedite it under the guise of "I know you paid me 25k but man, paperwork. I mean, who wants to do that?"
Me
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Not really regret, he was happy with the guide and would hunt with him again. It was clear in the short discussion that the guide did not want to shoot the bear and deal with DLP paperwork and my friend had not real option at that point.
The above paragraph makes no sense to me. He would hunt with the guide a second time?? You're questioning what he did on the first hunt, And I would be too.
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If your friend didn't want to shoot it, then why did he?
Because the bear was 10 yards and counting...
Seems like it was the guide's problem, doesn't it?
"Miss Jean Louise, stand up. Your father's passin.'"
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Thanks Phil! The bear came into camp, they tried to put their tents between themselves and the bear, throwing rocks and yelling. Not sure what else they could do, bear kept coming and was shot at actually 9 yards as he tells the story. It was a beautiful bear and my friend had a great overall experience, just not the bear he had hoped for. I was mostly curious on what would be appropriate in a situation like that. Not Phil But..... If the hunter didn’t want to shoot the bear he should have been off to the side slightly and behind the guide. Puts the ball squarely where it should had been.
Decades of voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us just that.....
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It's easy to arm chair this one but it all happened very quickly, they only had a brief minute to discuss options but the guide made it clear that he did not want to shoot the bear and my friend (his first bear hunt) felt like his options were limited, he shot it under ten yards, in the chest, coming straight on.
Based on this post you're a fool. I am not trying to "arm chair" this. I even noted a case where I was in much the same situation with a rhino in Africa. You have admitted the guide had NO INTENTION of shooting the damn bear! Therefore your friend made the decision on his own to fill his tag with a bear that WAS NOT A THREAT because if it was a threat then the guide would have shot it! Your friend decided to fill his tag with a smaller yet fully legal bear. he booked a bear hunt, the guide obviously put him onto bear and he filled his bear tag. Exactly what didn't go "as planned?" I really don't understand whatever point you are trying to make. In your initial posts you seem to make the point your "friend" was forced into taking a bear he didn't want and when experienced hunters pointed out that was BS you sure seem to be singing a different tune. From your posts I'm guessing you have never hunted dangerous game have you?
You get out of life what you are willing to accept. If you ain't happy, do something about it!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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If your friend didn't want to shoot it, then why did he?
Because the bear was 10 yards and counting...
Seems like it was the guide's problem, doesn't it? But there was going to be paperwork... That's what bothers me - rather than take care of the issue, the guide conned the client into burning his tag* rather than do the paperwork. He get's another 100% success on the stats, no paperwork. *not commenting on if it was necessary to shoot the bear at that time. 10 feet is really close but I'd think that if the bear was a real threat at that time, the guide would have been shooting because it was his butt being threatened at the same time - paperwork be damned. Save your own skin.
Me
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