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Whoever pulled trigger is responsible. When someone hand you a firearm, you just don't assume it is unloaded.
NRA lifetime member
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This whole thread is an indicator of just how screwed up this country is. If gun people can't agree, how do you expect any justice comes from this whole affair.
1 Alec Baldwin is a puke
2 Alec Baldwin shot the cinematographer
3 Halyna Hutchins is dead
4 The gun and ammunition was mishandled by more than one person
The result of this mess will end up in a long debate, Alec Baldwin will join O.J. Simpson in a shrouded event that will ultimately get him off due to celebrity status and life will go on without the cinematographer.
Alec Baldwin may be the biggest arsehole in the world, yet gun safety is the responsibility of the armorer and actors are paid to point guns at each other and pull triggers Why are you still pushing that moronic bullschit? If I handed you a pistol and you knew you had to point it at a person would you check it yourself first? Or would you trust me to make sure it was unloaded for you? You Aussies are an odd bunch. Actors are not necessarily competent with guns, yet their job description involves pointing guns at others and pulling triggers.....which is why they hire a safety officer, an armorer who's job description involves gun safety. A current armorer for Hollywood disagrees with you. A Hollywood safety expert, Bryan Carpenter of Dark Thirty Film Services told the New York Post that “loaded or unloaded, a weapon never gets pointed at another human being,” Carpenter said that guns used in either film or TV productions are not usually pointed at an actor, crew member or equipment, but rather at a dummy point. “You never let the muzzle of a weapon cover something you don’t intend to destroy. All guns are always [considered] loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.” https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com...y-single-rule-of-gun-safety-experts-say/I wouldn't trust Baldwin with a gun on or off set....nor any actor. Whether you find some armorer who agrees or disagrees, it is the job of an armorer to ensure that there is no live ammo on site and that all guns are safe before being handed to an actor....any actor, any movie set, no live ammo, all guns checked. No where in my post did I say I trust anyone at any point in the chain of custody of the guns. In fact, that is exactly the same message that a current professional armorer along with other armorers, actors, producers, etc....are saying. No matter how many safety procedures and how professional the armorer is you still don't point the gun at anything you don't want to destroy. That message came from an armorer as I quoted. There is nothing in their safety procedures that overrides muzzle control. It appears that you are the one that is trusting the armorer over muzzle control. Your posts read that way. Current professional armorers and myself completely disagree. This is why I say Baldwin along with the armorer at a minimum are responsible for the death of that woman in my opinion. There may be others once the investigation is finished, but doesn't guarantee any of them will be charged.
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Joined: Aug 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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This whole thread is an indicator of just how screwed up this country is. If gun people can't agree, how do you expect any justice comes from this whole affair.
1 Alec Baldwin is a puke
2 Alec Baldwin shot the cinematographer
3 Halyna Hutchins is dead
4 The gun and ammunition was mishandled by more than one person
The result of this mess will end up in a long debate, Alec Baldwin will join O.J. Simpson in a shrouded event that will ultimately get him off due to celebrity status and life will go on without the cinematographer.
Alec Baldwin may be the biggest arsehole in the world, yet gun safety is the responsibility of the armorer and actors are paid to point guns at each other and pull triggers Why are you still pushing that moronic bullschit? If I handed you a pistol and you knew you had to point it at a person would you check it yourself first? Or would you trust me to make sure it was unloaded for you? You Aussies are an odd bunch. Actors are not necessarily competent with guns, yet their job description involves pointing guns at others and pulling triggers.....which is why they hire a safety officer, an armorer who's job description involves gun safety. A current armorer for Hollywood disagrees with you. A Hollywood safety expert, Bryan Carpenter of Dark Thirty Film Services told the New York Post that “loaded or unloaded, a weapon never gets pointed at another human being,” Carpenter said that guns used in either film or TV productions are not usually pointed at an actor, crew member or equipment, but rather at a dummy point. “You never let the muzzle of a weapon cover something you don’t intend to destroy. All guns are always [considered] loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.” https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com...y-single-rule-of-gun-safety-experts-say/I wouldn't trust Baldwin with a gun on or off set....nor any actor. Whether you find some armorer who agrees or disagrees, it is the job of an armorer to ensure that there is no live ammo on site and that all guns are safe before being handed to an actor....any actor, any movie set, no live ammo, all guns checked. I'm still waiting for someone to show me the part of the NM statues that absolve one from being responsible for firing a handgun because they are an actor on a set. Especially when the "industry safeguards" already failed on the set of the movie. Twice.
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I guess no one ever annoys gun clerks by checking a gun they just showed as clear. I won't even shoot ammo you hand me without at least inquiring as to its origin. I think you call these steps double checking. If you're aiming toward a person triple or quintuple checking is not out of order.
These are basic safety measures anyone using a firearm should follow. They would have saved a life and a pile of money for Baldwin and co.
I don't buy that you can't expect an actor/actress to know guns. She's being paid a pile to be a person who uses them. If she were to play a dancer she'd take dancing lessons.
Living in a world of G17s and 700s, wishing for P7s and 202s
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Campfire Tracker
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Whoever pulled trigger is responsible. When someone hand you a firearm, you just don't assume it is unloaded. . It wasn't a gun range. It was a movie set.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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This whole thread is an indicator of just how screwed up this country is. If gun people can't agree, how do you expect any justice comes from this whole affair.
1 Alec Baldwin is a puke
2 Alec Baldwin shot the cinematographer
3 Halyna Hutchins is dead
4 The gun and ammunition was mishandled by more than one person
The result of this mess will end up in a long debate, Alec Baldwin will join O.J. Simpson in a shrouded event that will ultimately get him off due to celebrity status and life will go on without the cinematographer.
Alec Baldwin may be the biggest arsehole in the world, yet gun safety is the responsibility of the armorer and actors are paid to point guns at each other and pull triggers Why are you still pushing that moronic bullschit? If I handed you a pistol and you knew you had to point it at a person would you check it yourself first? Or would you trust me to make sure it was unloaded for you? You Aussies are an odd bunch. Actors are not necessarily competent with guns, yet their job description involves pointing guns at others and pulling triggers.....which is why they hire a safety officer, an armorer who's job description involves gun safety. A current armorer for Hollywood disagrees with you. A Hollywood safety expert, Bryan Carpenter of Dark Thirty Film Services told the New York Post that “loaded or unloaded, a weapon never gets pointed at another human being,” Carpenter said that guns used in either film or TV productions are not usually pointed at an actor, crew member or equipment, but rather at a dummy point. “You never let the muzzle of a weapon cover something you don’t intend to destroy. All guns are always [considered] loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.” https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com...y-single-rule-of-gun-safety-experts-say/I wouldn't trust Baldwin with a gun on or off set....nor any actor. Whether you find some armorer who agrees or disagrees, it is the job of an armorer to ensure that there is no live ammo on site and that all guns are safe before being handed to an actor....any actor, any movie set, no live ammo, all guns checked. No where in my post did I say I trust anyone at any point in the chain of custody of the guns. In fact, that is exactly the same message that a current professional armorer along with other armorers, actors, producers, etc....are saying. No matter how many safety procedures and how professional the armorer is you still don't point the gun at anything you don't want to destroy. That message came from an armorer as I quoted. There is nothing in their safety procedures that overrides muzzle control. It appears that you are the one that is trusting the armorer over muzzle control. Your posts read that way. Current professional armorers and myself completely disagree. This is why I say Baldwin along with the armorer at a minimum are responsible for the death of that woman in my opinion. There may be others once the investigation is finished, but doesn't guarantee any of them will be charged. Actors are not necessarily gun savvy, own or shoot guns....they act. They play parts according to a script. Guns on set are not supposed to be shooting live ammo.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Whoever pulled trigger is responsible. When someone hand you a firearm, you just don't assume it is unloaded. . It wasn't a gun range. It was a movie set. Neither is a gun store counter, my living room nor the pheasant fields. I'd still place the burden on a person handling a firearm to personally check the chamber. Baldwin has been in a lot of action films and I simply won't believe he hasn't had a lot of firearm training for them, whether low budget movies or not. Even if he hadn't, I'd still not give him a pass just because it was someone else's "job" to clear a chamber.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Whoever pulled trigger is responsible. When someone hand you a firearm, you just don't assume it is unloaded. . It wasn't a gun range. It was a movie set. A movie set where the super Hollywood safety crew already failed twice......
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Campfire Tracker
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Whoever pulled trigger is responsible. When someone hand you a firearm, you just don't assume it is unloaded. . It wasn't a gun range. It was a movie set. A movie set where the super Hollywood safety crew already failed twice...... How do you fix incompetence?
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Baldwin's first time firing a gun on a movie set most assuredly involved him double checking and asking if it was 100% for certain safe. Then he fired the blank at a safe aim point.
Fast forward to when he got lazy and careless with a gun and killed someone. Blame the armorer and directors all you want, but the ULTIMATE responsibility is the person who pointed the gun directly at someone, pulled the trigger and killed her out of laziness and carelessness. I don't care about movie set 'standards' or 'best practices'. To say otherwise is wrong and a disservice to everyone of us that takes firearm safety seriously. He owns the lion-share of the blame.
And he probably won't be charged because we can't even agree on what's right and wrong anymore.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Oct 2002
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This whole thread is an indicator of just how screwed up this country is. If gun people can't agree, how do you expect any justice comes from this whole affair.
1 Alec Baldwin is a puke
2 Alec Baldwin shot the cinematographer
3 Halyna Hutchins is dead
4 The gun and ammunition was mishandled by more than one person
The result of this mess will end up in a long debate, Alec Baldwin will join O.J. Simpson in a shrouded event that will ultimately get him off due to celebrity status and life will go on without the cinematographer.
Alec Baldwin may be the biggest arsehole in the world, yet gun safety is the responsibility of the armorer and actors are paid to point guns at each other and pull triggers Why are you still pushing that moronic bullschit? If I handed you a pistol and you knew you had to point it at a person would you check it yourself first? Or would you trust me to make sure it was unloaded for you? You Aussies are an odd bunch. Actors are not necessarily competent with guns, yet their job description involves pointing guns at others and pulling triggers.....which is why they hire a safety officer, an armorer who's job description involves gun safety. A current armorer for Hollywood disagrees with you. A Hollywood safety expert, Bryan Carpenter of Dark Thirty Film Services told the New York Post that “loaded or unloaded, a weapon never gets pointed at another human being,” Carpenter said that guns used in either film or TV productions are not usually pointed at an actor, crew member or equipment, but rather at a dummy point. “You never let the muzzle of a weapon cover something you don’t intend to destroy. All guns are always [considered] loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.” https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com...y-single-rule-of-gun-safety-experts-say/I wouldn't trust Baldwin with a gun on or off set....nor any actor. Whether you find some armorer who agrees or disagrees, it is the job of an armorer to ensure that there is no live ammo on site and that all guns are safe before being handed to an actor....any actor, any movie set, no live ammo, all guns checked. No where in my post did I say I trust anyone at any point in the chain of custody of the guns. In fact, that is exactly the same message that a current professional armorer along with other armorers, actors, producers, etc....are saying. No matter how many safety procedures and how professional the armorer is you still don't point the gun at anything you don't want to destroy. That message came from an armorer as I quoted. There is nothing in their safety procedures that overrides muzzle control. It appears that you are the one that is trusting the armorer over muzzle control. Your posts read that way. Current professional armorers and myself completely disagree. This is why I say Baldwin along with the armorer at a minimum are responsible for the death of that woman in my opinion. There may be others once the investigation is finished, but doesn't guarantee any of them will be charged. Actors are not necessarily gun savvy, own or shoot guns....they act. They play parts according to a script. Guns on set are not supposed to be shooting live ammo. That is exactly the attitude that gets people killed. Complacency and not taking personal responsibility for gun safety. Bullets don’t know whether it is a movie set or not. They will do what they are designed to do without first checking to see if they are on a movie set.
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Whoever pulled trigger is responsible. When someone hand you a firearm, you just don't assume it is unloaded. . It wasn't a gun range. It was a movie set. A movie set where the super Hollywood safety crew already failed twice...... How do you fix incompetence? Even competent armorers like the one I quoted said that you never point a gun at some one on one of his movie sets. Why would it be different on any other set?
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From the Stephen Hunter article. " ... Whether intentionally or by chance, he [Baldwin] has had a remarkably gun-free career as a film actor. ..." Baldwin has used guns in a number of movies with Miami Blues and The Edge being just a couple. There are others in which he used guns, so he should have been aware of the NRA's four Safety Rules. But, his rabid hatred of the NRA and its members would preclude him from using any advice on safety from the NRA. If he had, this tragedy would never have happened. L.W.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." (William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830s.)
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Campfire Ranger
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I simply refuse to believe he has never had any type of firearm training, let alone didn't "know" he should check a gun whenever it is handed to him. ![[Linked Image from ruthlessreviews.com]](https://www.ruthlessreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/hfro11.jpg) ![[Linked Image from media.breitbart.com]](https://media.breitbart.com/media/2018/04/Baldwincollage1.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i1.wp.com]](https://i1.wp.com/cms.sofrep.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/alex-baldwin-pixie.jpg) ![[Linked Image from m.media-amazon.com]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51pmQed2eaL._AC_.jpg) M1911A1 The Hunt for Red October Smith & Wesson Model 36 Miami Blues Desert Eagle Miami Blues Colt MK IV Series 80 Combat Elite Carter The Getaway Benelli M3 Super 90 The Getaway LAR Grizzly Win Mag The Shadow Colt MK IV Series 80 Heaven's Prisoners Mossberg 500 Heaven's Prisoners Beretta Model 70 The Juror Ruger Mk II The Juror Colt M1911A1 The Juror Lorcin L25 The Juror Winchester Model 1886 The Edge SIG-Sauer P226 Mercury Rising Colt Gold Cup National Match Thick as Thieves 12 Gauge Over/Under Shotgun Fun with Dick and Jane Jericho 941 Mission: Impossible - Fallout Lots of people screwed up. Baldwin's screw up was the biggest. He owns it.
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For all those films w guns......wonderr what % he checked ?
Last edited by hookeye; 11/03/21.
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Campfire Tracker
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Whoever pulled trigger is responsible. When someone hand you a firearm, you just don't assume it is unloaded. . It wasn't a gun range. It was a movie set. A movie set where the super Hollywood safety crew already failed twice...... How do you fix incompetence? Even competent armorers like the one I quoted said that you never point a gun at some one on one of his movie sets. Why would it be different on any other set? Had the armorer been doing her job, it wouldn't have happened. There wouldn't have been live ammo on site, guns would be checked properly and nobody would have gotten shot. And of course, actors should not only be instructed on gun handling but how to use the gun during rehersal. It appears that none of this happened, a failure on many levels.
Last edited by DBT; 11/03/21.
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You guys are killing me!
He was the executive producer, he knew that procedures were not being followed, he did nothing to correct the situation.
Then he pointed a gun at a person, in violation of any established safety procedure, and he pulled the trigger.
Baldwin is responsible, period.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General
John Stark.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Now the idiot “Armorer’s Attorneys are claiming “Sabotage”
That some disgruntled crew member stuck a life round in the box of “dummy rounds”
If this was just a “rehearsal’ as they’ve ALL CLAIMED” it was, why was their a “need” to have fake ammo in the gun ???
And as a “highly trained” Set Armorer, shouldn’t she know the difference between a live round and a “dummy round” ???
I’ll even go as far to say her dumbass and some of the other crew members were probably the ones target practicing with live ammo, before the supposed Rehearsal.
Sounds like more Bullschitt to me and that her Lawyers are trying to cover for her incompetent dumbass.
Gotta create some doubt for the Jury or Grand Jury To try and keep her stupid ass out of Jail.
She’ll be the one charged, if anybody is in a actual Criminal Case.
Like I stated before, Baldwin’s arrogant ass, no matter how culpable, will skate on any Criminal Charges, because it happened in the Libertard Schitthole of Santa Fe. Book it. 😜
Last edited by chlinstructor; 11/03/21.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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You guys are killing me!
He was the executive producer, he knew that procedures were not being followed, he did nothing to correct the situation.
Then he pointed a gun at a person, in violation of any established safety procedure, and he pulled the trigger.
Baldwin is responsible, period. You keep saying this, and you are WRONG. There are 7 producers listed for the film, and below follows are the listed Executive Producers. You continue to say Baldwin hired the armorer, and yet have zero proof of that either. "Speaking on behalf of the now shuttered production, Allen Cheney made it known in a statement provided to the press Wednesday that he, along with Emily Salveson and her Streamline Global finance company, “received Executive Producer credit on the film Rust having no involvement with the physical and day to day production,” which is “consistent with financing partners across productions of all sizes.”
Last edited by Bwana_1; 11/03/21.
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Now the idiot “Armorer’s Attorneys are claiming “Sabotage”
That some disgruntled crew member stuck a life round in the box of “dummy rounds”
If this was just a “rehearsal’ as they’ve ALL CLAIMED” it was, why was their a “need” to have fake ammo in the gun ???
And as a “highly trained” Set Armorer, shouldn’t she know the difference between a live round and a “dummy round” ???
I’ll even go as far to say her dumbass and some of the other crew members were probably the ones target practicing with live ammo, before the supposed Rehearsal.
Sounds like more Bullschitt to me and that her Lawyers are trying to cover for her incompetent dumbass.
Gotta create some doubt for the Jury or Grand Jury To try and keep her stupid ass out of Jail.
She’ll be the one charged, if anybody is in a actual Criminal Case.
Like I stated before, Baldwin’s arrogant ass, no matter how culpable, will skate on any Criminal Charges, because it happened in the Libertard Schitthole of Santa Fe. Book it. 😜 Go look at some of the pics of dummy rounds. They even have primers. I could see that happening. And of course, you would need dummy rounds in a rehearsal. They are checking everything. They are setting up the shot. They want to see how things look on the camera and that includes the big pieces of lead in the cylinder. I guess the questions I would have to ask are about the alleged target shooting and the number of live rounds found on set. Did they actually go target shooting during their down time? How many live rounds were found? If there was a bunch of them, that’s one thing. If there were just a few or maybe even only that one, then that makes sabotage a lot easier to consider.
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