Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Vent about new long range guys

So, I work at the hunting department of the local Sportsmans Warehouse... I sell a lot of scopes, and of course a main part of sales is to ask the customer what there use will be...


well, alot of guys who dont "look" like they are able to shoot really well tell me they want to get into the long range hunting.. 500+ yards... I dont know if they know what it takes to shoot effectively shoot?!?!? Most of these guys, I try to explain the target turret deal, but they all want the Boone and Crockett, or some other BDC type of reticle... which is fine, but in my mind makes me think that they cant apprehend the math it takes to figure the turrets out, so they want to be able to range and bang with no work envolved!

sorry about the rant, and i dont mean to make any sort of debate, just wanted to vent, and see wat you guys think about this....

I agree. Nowadays with some of the gadgets (some are necessary), especially the laser rangefinding scopes, anybody thinks they can hit what they're aiming at way out there. The problem is not that the gadgets are not effective, it's just that many shooters lack the discipline to acquire the knowledge needed when using them.

One of the big problems is that many ranges don't go beyond 100 yds. so many don't have the chance to test their rigs at longer distances, and of course again many won't even care to.

I saw a post several months ago where a guy was gonna shoot at 100 yds. using all the aim points on his ballistic reticle. Once he saw that his gps. were exactly the same point above the gp he shot from his reticle's zero at the reticle's axis he figured he was set to go, and he never even shot at distance to confirm the trajectory of his load. Guys commented on the forum that he did a fine job, when all he was doing really was confirming the reticle's subtensions. Amazing how little is commonly known about this stuff, and how much misinformation there is out there.

Kinda puts you in mind of some of these guys who drive around in five-hundred horsepower cars with tricked-out suspensions. They've never been off the public highway but it sure looks cool driving around or sitting in the driveway.

any clubs around to shoot 500 yards? invite the club to offer a membership at the counter... sell it up and offer a sportsmans wharehouse day and show them what you are talking about..

hell, offer a class with a one day trial at the club.. start with a class session including the basics and then let them see how it works...

hey, i like that idea..

woofer

Heh heh, "testing" your subtension by shooting, strikes me as very humorus. Thanks for the chuckle.

Carl

Casey-no problemo about the rant, I worked the counters (of guns shops) for 3 years so we've earned the right to rant. I honestly feel that the world of gun shops would be a much better place if all gun looney's had to spend a couple of season behind the counter.

It could it would and it should make gun shops a much better place to hang out. I mean the stories I could tell, and Royce from here worked them for a lot longer than I did so he big time can tell stories.

OK to the turret thing vs the B&C and or BP or whatever.

First off, it is my opinion that 500 yds is not all that far and that shooters are way more capable of this kind of distance (with a bit of coaching) than we ever give them credit for.

I also understand the lingo and how the people sound and how you/I can tell that they didn't have much time in behind a gun. And or I/you can tell that they are pretty darn gun savy and that they're just ready to take it to another level.

I'd almost always ask what kind of LRF they're using and if they weren't into a LRF then we'd start into LRF school. And I also knew they were really behind the 8 ball. IMO anyone planning to go to any distance past 300 yds they're just fooling themselves by not going LRF.

Once thru that we'd start talking about the B&C reticle and the BP reticle and to a very small extent turrets. This country up here is basically not turrret country, and as such there isn't a lot of talk about it exceptin by target shooters.

The B&C and or BP systems are so simple stupid user friendly and so quick and so efficient that there is no reason not to be using them to 500-600 yds.

Personally I would talk them thru the LRF stuff if need be, then I would talk them thru the reticle stuff and then if need be I'd offer to meet them at the range and walk them thru it. I normally go to the range at least 1x a week to 4x's a week so it isn't very tough for me to do so.

I found that those that seriously wanted to learn they would learn. I also found that with these systems it was so simple to get people sorted out to 500. Once they understand LRF's and trigger control and how to build a nest (place on ground to rest off of) then it was about all over except for a bit of shooting.

This is really not rocket science. Now if you wish for people to use turrets by all means go for it. Personally I see no reason whatsoever to steer them that way. The B&C and or BP systems are so simple/tough and take less time to get into action and their easy enough to use that anyone especially under pressure can remember them.

Now there is gonna be the group of people that don't care and won't practice and so on. We can't change them and although I tried to give them a few things to consider I also saw thru them real quick and honestly wouldn't spend my time and or energy on them.

Good luck to you this fall, don't let them get to ya!

Dober

+1 to all.

Lefty

ehhh they dont really get to me, it just so happens that when ever i talk to anybody, they tell me they have a whitetail tag (what i hunt) and i can just imagine these people huffin and puffin from MAYBE hikin 1/2 a mile, then tryin to make a 500 yard shot... it makes me cringe! I hate to think about one of MY deer walking around with a knee blown off, or a jaw destroyed, or even worse dying from a gut shot!

When it comes down to long range, I am for it 100%. There are many times when you hunt coues deer that you cannot get closer than say 400/500 yards. Do you shoot or not? I do. If you know your gun, your scope and the range you are shooting, there is nothing wrong with taking long shots.
I have a old tasco 3-9x40 tv view world class. Have had that gun and scope set up for 15 years now. I know my gun know it capability. However I also know how to use my scope and the duplex and cross hair. No fancy turrets no BC reticle just an scope I have used for years and have shot with for years. There was a canyon by my moms house that we set up 12"x12" plates at 300, 400 and 500 yards. With a lot of practice, ammo and patience. I learned my scope and where to hold over. my main cross was 300 half way down was 400 and the tip of the duplex was 500. never failed me. I knew the yards. I like it more than i do the turrets on my 7 mag. Because I have had the gun so long. However I have learned the value of turrets. When I was at the Kaibab guiding a couple years back. My client had turrets on his gun. We had been seeing a deer come in and out of the woods everyday in the same spot. After some thinking, I got to a point and took a reading. 420 yards. That night me and my client planned to kill that deer. come morning we exited the truck and he turned his turrets to the 425 yards line and he said lets go. Sure enough like clock work The buck as soon as light came up he started moving to cover. We spotted him like always but this time two shots rang out before he got to hide and he was dead. That was the great thing with turrets. you know the pattern and you can get an easy shot.

As I see new products come out and ooo everyone, I am hesitant until I try it. I am sold on the turrets, sold on the BC Reticle. However each has its purpose and place on hunts.
I think for coues and certain areas, a BC Reticle is better than turrets, just my opinion. the distances vary in most areas and to be moving a turret as the deer move around just annoy me. however if you have a BC reticle or say premire reticle dots put in. It makes it easier to just move your gun up or down than to have to look at your turrets and adjust then everytime the buck moves. with a reticle you keep your eye on the target more. Know if you are hunting a long canyon like in unit 32 or 33, then everything I just said doesn't matter as the distances tend to not change much.

If I was you I would stress the value of practice and a rangefinder. Because without both of those. a scope with a reticle or a scope with turrets are worthless.

Just my two cents and experience. But what do I know? I have hunted with the same rifle and scope for 15 years.

Kique

Dobers comments make sense. I don't care what they buy(turrets or reticle); if they do not(cannot) shoot to distance, they are doomed to failure.

Two things I've learned in life is that a person can't buy experience and or ability.

They both have to be earned and it normally takes time and discipline and diligence to aquire both.

Dober

+1.Very true.

I think it an indication of where we are as a society. Everyone is in a hurry, nobody wants to put the work in anymore, everyone wants it handed to them. And everyone wants to be the Big Dog.

-jeff

Yep, lazy pretty well covers it in my books.... F class shooting is a partial example, historically highpower has been iron sights, then to get more involved they allowed "deer rifles with scopes" and on a bipod or rests so no sling use or jacket knowledge needed....

its good, and its bad....

Jeff

There is a tendency among many shooters that I see to get the equipment to do it; buy the technology and the shooter becomes sorta detached from the process, and they think they can still hit.Which is not true.If you don't work at shooting, you'll never be any good.

Guy at the range the other day asked me how far his 30/06 dropped at 300 yards; I asked him did he ever go to the 300 yard range to find out? he said "no"; he's been a member there about 10 years......

I agree 100%

Yeah, or more than 100% if that were possible.

I know for a fact that one of my elk-camp buddies has not fired his rifle since last year, and that's pretty common for him. To his credit, he's one hell of an outdoorsman and prefers to be out salmon fishing, sturgeon fishing, or whatever else kind of fishing every weekend, not shooting. Still, in that same year, I bet I put 400 rounds through my .338 and 600 or so through my 30-06 and another 500 or so through the .308, and a couple hundred through the 7mm-08, all to attempt to become functionally proficient out to my first goal of 400 yards, which I have extended to 500 yards due to success. Not tooting my own horn; I only barely feel like I accomplished anything- I only learned enough to see how much I CAN'T do and DON'T know, but that's major progress if you think about it!

It would not matter at all, it'd be just another blowhard thing that guys could brag about in the bars with no consequences, except that these are cognizant, living beings we are shooting here that feel pain in much the same way we do and are put together much the same way. So to gut-shoot an elk so that it dies 10 days later in misery is really, really wrong and that's the sort of thing people are risking when they ass-u-me they can shoot and start flinging lead at long distance without the practice time first.

-jeff

Jeff-what you're seeing is what a lot don't see cause they don't try.

But, mucho practice at range teaches one to know what he can do and what he can't do and the ability to know the difference in a nanno second.

Dober

That is true;gotta know your limits and forget it sometimes. Jeff's right about wanting to hit well. Practice teaches you what shots you can ake with certainty.

+100.