Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Do you know what DEF fluid is?

Diesel Peeps

Do you know what DEF fluid is? It's Diesel Exhaust Fluid. Every Diesel truck that has been made since 2010 is required to use it. It's a product made of 67% Urea fertilizer and 33% distilled water. Every diesel truck you see driving down the road today has to have this product to drive. The engines won't start without it. There are regulators inside the engine that mix DEF with the Diesel to reduce Diesel emissions. That's the purpose of DEF.

Right now, Russia is the largest exporter of Urea by a wide margin. Qatar is second. Egypt and China are Tied for 3rd. Both Russia and China have decided to no longer export Urea. On top of that, India is the largest manufacturer of Urea in the world even though they consume most of what they make. What little they would export..........they no longer do. They are now stopping the exportation of any and all Urea minus a deal they just cut with Sri Lanka.

What does this mean for you and me? Well, first, the United States imports most of it's Urea fertilizer. We are the third largest importer in the entire world. We depend on other countries to eat, drive and ship our products.

Secondly... Flying J is the largest Service provider for Truckers around the Unites States. I'm sure you've seen their massive gas stations when traveling around the country. Flying J gets 70% of their DEF fluid from shipments via Union Pacific railroad. UP has single user access to the Fertilizer plants that Urea/DEF fluid comes from. No other rail provider has access to these distribution points. This means Flying J can't just go around Union Pacific. Union Pacific is in charge....for a reason I'm gonna mention in a few paragraphs.

Flying J provides 30% of all DEF consumed in the United States. UP has told Flying J to reduce their shipments by a whopping 50%. And if they do not comply then they will be completely embargoed. That would in effect bankrupt FJ. This means that 15% of all DEF consumed by truckers in the US is no longer available at the largest travel service center for the entire trucking industry.

Rome rotted from the inside out. It was easily invaded because it was occupied with internal problems. It appears we have discovered the Trigger. DEF fluid. If this holds up, DEF shortages will be the catalyst that causes food shortages in the coming months. Not only is there a shortage of fertilizer to grow crops in drought-stricken states (See Kansas' drop in wheat production for 2022)....but....now it looks like, unless the Federal Government intervenes via the Defense Production Act, ...which I am no longer confident they will....there is gonna be an absolute massive shortage of trucking in the coming months.

There simply isn't going to be DEF fluid sufficient to keep the engines running and moving. Home Depot is now limiting the amount of DEF you can buy in their stores.

I would think long and hard about the decisions you are making right now. Where you live. What you spend money on. How you prepare. This is so real that the CEO of Flying J, Shameek Konar was summoned to a Surface Transportation Board hearing to give them all this info.

From what I'm reading....Blackrock is the majority shareholder of Union Pacific railroad. How is that important? Americas biggest fertilizer producer is CF Industries. Their largest shareholder is Blackrock. Blackrock controls the fertilizer industry in the U.S.. Union Pacific has exclusive rights to distribution points of fertilizer. Urea is fertilizer. Flying J needs Urea/DEF. Blackrock is controlling everything.

The Chairman of the BlackRock Investment Institute is Tom Donilon, President Obama’s former National Security Advisor. Tom Donilon’s brother, Mike Donilon is a Senior Advisor to Joe Biden. Tom Donilon’s wife, Catherine Russell, is the White House Personnel Director. Tom Donilon’s daughter, Sarah Donilon, who graduated college in 2019, now works on the White House National Security Council.

It appears Blackrock is spearheading the dismantling of the US system on behalf of the Globalists. And the first domino they are pushing over is the energy sector. They are using DEF to get the party started.

By @rockhound
See the whole post in MAGA Hub

You can’t even stockpile def. It won’t keep longer than a year.

Those of us left better learn how to drive oxen and red river carts.
UP is on my list for: laying off crews, going to PSR, and ( (not pertinent but) nearly crashing 844, sabotaging 3985, and spending millions on 4014 but not running it with anything resembling a load. ( and it is HARD to turn)

Couldn't the computer control programs for the engines be reflashed to get around the problem?

They could, if the EPA allows it. But no trucking company has the balls to tell the govt to [bleep] off. They will go bankrupt first.

the EPA has done a lot to prevent that.you can even sure they won’t relax their rules even if it is possible.

Exellent post by the OP....some of the names tells a guy all he needs to know.

A lot of people are taking it off their trucks.

This is scary schit. Other than starving to death, I do have a few trucks that were built in the 2000's that don't take DEF.

I was already worried about the fertilizer, but I never thought about a DEF shortage that will stop the trucking industry. This sort of thing could bring us to our knees. We have people running our country that are trying to kill us.

Time to ignore the EPA and their regs. DEF is deletable.

Time to stick the green neo deal where the sun don't shine....

It's urea. Weak fertilizer. Urea is the major constituent of the urine and the principal means for disposal of nitrogen derived from amino acid metabolism

CH₄N₂O

Trying to follow along here, I'm confused.

We import our urea/DEF.

Somehow, one RR has exclusive acess to the plants?
In Russia? Or China?

And a RR makes 70% of the deliveries to truck stops.
(I'll give you warehousing)

These DEF factories don't have facilities to load trucks?
Only trains?
So they couldn't ship the DEF by truck?


It's not the vast amounts you are thinking it is.
DEF consumption is around 50:1 diesel.
So one truck tanker load of fuel only needs 140 gallon of DEF to treat it.

One truck loaded with DEF would hold around 4800 gallons.
Treating almost 250k of diesel.
And I'd bet every individual truck stop is getting it delivered on site by
truck already.

DEF isn't "needed" to operate these trucks anyway.
It's required by regulation.
The trucks are equipped to meet the regulations, but can be DEF deleted
And will operate fine.


You are over looking the obvious Chicken Little Scare.

Trucks don't NEED urea.

Farmers sure as hell do. At least if you want to continue our
mass agriculture.

We can’t get the FJB Cabal out of Washington fast enough…

Bwana 338. DEF is NOT mixed with diesel fuel. It is sprayed into the exhaust stream after combustion. Statements like that throw suspicion on the validity of the whole article. And a quick look at a UP rail map tells us that UP has no monopoly on serving refinery operations, where urea is produced. That said, what is good for Blackrock...is not good for the middle class.

Government regulation and insyrance are the two biggest obstacles business has to overcome in order to conduct business. We are in this situation due to the policies of the current administration. Look how much better we were doing three years ago. Nobody thought we would be where we are now. The solutions to all these problems are simple and Americans would rise to the solution if only government would get out of the way!
This is a real problem. I have four diesel trucks, none of which use DEF. Decide a long time ago not to buy anything that requires it. Our little fire district has mutual aid agreements with three other nearby districts and we all pitch in to help each other out. Works very well because we have good people. One district has a new pumper which we all utilize and it uses DEF. If this situation gets really bad, that engine will not get out of the station. Our old pumper will become more than a standby unit.

[quote=Bwana338][quote=Dillonbuck]Trying to follow along here, I'm confused.

We import our urea/DEF.

The USA is the largest user of DEF in the world

Somehow, one RR has exclusive acess to the plants?

Many firms are located and served by 1 railroad, very few have the options of having access to 2 railroads for shipping. So yes one rail road would have exclusive shipping rights with the plant



Very few places have easy acess to two different rail lines.

But how many facilities are RR exclusive?

Trucking is more my wheelhouse, and there aren't a lot of places I've seen
that don't use trucks as well as trains. There are some.

Point being, The Flying Hook could likely just ship by truck.
It would cost more for transport/mile.
But it would eliminate the logistics costs of warehousing and delivery trucks.

Again, the work arounds are relatively simple.

Trying for 260bu/acre crops without urea is not.
Feeding our country with natural fertilizers is not.

Not unless, we find a way to ship [bleep] from producers to cropland
farmers cheaply. I'm sure the hog producers in the South East would
love to be paid for their poop. Not seeing Upper Plains Dry Land Wheat
Farmers being able to afford the frieght.

I stopped by Tractor Supply the other day to pickup a jug of DEF. They had three different brands, stacked from floor to top shelf. Probably 50-60 jugs. It is my opinion that lot of shortages are caused by the ones saying there is going to be a shortage. So people run up and by 4 times more than they need. I bought 2.5 gal because my truck info says I was at 20%
Sort of like some guys on here going out and buying more powder, bullets, primers than they can shoot in a life tiem