Reliance on the bible is an exercise of cut and paste.
Don’t like cut and paste?
Cut and paste is ok, if one can understand and make relevant comment on what has been “pasted and cut.”
You and DBT will once in awhile try to cut and paste a Bible verse but you have little idea of what message it brings.
I strongly suspect DBT has not sufficiently studied and researched the Bible nor evolution to develop his own independent thoughts or beliefs. Hence, he will not post what he considers to be “proof” of evolution in his own words.
He can no more competently discuss “proof” of evolution that he can competently discuss the Bible verses he will sometimes post.
Ok….Mauser…. Let’s try this verse:
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Care to tell what this says?
Apart from the elephant in the room, being the fact it's an unsubstantiated assertion, there are some logical issues.
Also, since cut and paste is acceptable again, here's what I found:
You'll need to sort that out.
The logical issues are: 1. There was no sacrifice. Whether Jesus was human, or god in human form, he's now in heaven (hiding again) - ultimate goal, or status quo. Where's the sacrifice? 2. If god is so powerful why did he even bother was a blood sacrifice, and not just forgive everyone anyway? And there are still conditions to his/her/its unconditional love. 3. Other religions do not support the statement.
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.
That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.
M9MM and DBT; I've *CITED* many facts and sources... to which you've offered not a single rebuttal other than how intellecutally impossible God could be... not a single rebuttal.
4. Sodom and Gomorrah have been found destroyed by sulpur (ever asked what the Hebrew meaning of "fire and brimstone" actually was?) 5. Noah's Ark was found having slid down Mount Ararat with very clear trenching showing its original placement... at the top 6. Gold-covered *chariot wheels* were discovered at the *BOTTOM OF THE RED SEA*! Roughly 220 MILES away from their beginning in Egypt 7. Human femurs were found in the 1950's that were over *5 FEET LONG*! HUMAN FEMURS!
No! None of that is true. Ron Wyatt was a quack that even the other quacks thought was a crazy con artist.
If you do enough reading you will discover everyone is refuted by someone. That includes ALL evolutions and creationists. So, you like the rest of us have to by faith believe what we believe since we are not scientists who go to the fields or go to the labs. We parrot what we read or hear in lectures.
So Ron Wyatt, whose claims were dismissed by the Southern Baptist Convention, dismissed by AIG, dismissed by the Catholic church and by every other mainstream church despite their prayers and desire to find these true artifacts, should be believed by the campfire crew because the Christian scientists sent by these groups aren't good enough to divide god's truth from Satan's deception, according to you. You think we should believe a charlatan with no proof other than bad photoshop. Do you not realize where this would lead? If you witness to a person with these false witnesses, and the person discovers your misleading falsehoods, do you think they will believe other claims about Jesus??
You too are a fool. Unworthy to know the Truth. You'll find out, most likely one very hard way.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
M9MM and DBT; I've *CITED* many facts and sources... to which you've offered not a single rebuttal other than how intellecutally impossible God could be... not a single rebuttal.
4. Sodom and Gomorrah have been found destroyed by sulpur (ever asked what the Hebrew meaning of "fire and brimstone" actually was?) 5. Noah's Ark was found having slid down Mount Ararat with very clear trenching showing its original placement... at the top 6. Gold-covered *chariot wheels* were discovered at the *BOTTOM OF THE RED SEA*! Roughly 220 MILES away from their beginning in Egypt 7. Human femurs were found in the 1950's that were over *5 FEET LONG*! HUMAN FEMURS!
No! None of that is true. Ron Wyatt was a quack that even the other quacks thought was a crazy con artist.
If you do enough reading you will discover everyone is refuted by someone. That includes ALL evolutions and creationists. So, you like the rest of us have to by faith believe what we believe since we are not scientists who go to the fields or go to the labs. We parrot what we read or hear in lectures.
So Ron Wyatt, whose claims were dismissed by the Southern Baptist Convention, dismissed by AIG, dismissed by the Catholic church and by every other mainstream church despite their prayers and desire to find these true artifacts, should be believed by the campfire crew because the Christian scientists sent by these groups aren't good enough to divide god's truth from Satan's deception, according to you. You think we should believe a charlatan with no proof other than bad photoshop. Do you not realize where this would lead? If you witness to a person with these false witnesses, and the person discovers your misleading falsehoods, do you think they will believe other claims about Jesus??
You too are a fool. Unworthy to know the Truth. You'll find out, most likely one very hard way.
Not that you're listening, but the original greek word "Pisteuon" here translated "Believe" means more than just "believe". It means casting your whole faith upon. Even demons "believe" in Christ, in Matthew 8:29 "Legion" called out to Jesus who had just gotten out of the boat and was walking toward them. The leader yells out, "What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God?!" They know who He is, but aren't heading for Heaven, I can assure you.
No, the best explanation that I've ever heard is from Ray Comfort (cited earlier). If you're falling out of a plane, the "belief" in parachutes won't help you at all, you'd better be wearing one! There's "belief" and then there's trusting your *life* to it. No conflict exists. Merely "professing" to be a Christian, yet still living your sinful life is called hypocrisy. When you accept Jesus, you become a new human (born again) with a new heart and new desires to please Him who saved my sorry, unworthy self.
You seem to be missing the forest for the trees. There are no conflicts in the Bible. All through the Old Testament, God tells us that He will destroy death. Then the New Testament tells us how He did it! He's the incomprehensibly brilliant Creator of all! He made it so simple that a child can understand it, yet confound even the most intelligent people on earth.
The truth is, like stated previously, you *need* Him not to exist, because you have *everything* riding on that. I'll bet there's no other area of your life that you put "all of your eggs in one basket". I'll bet you're smartly invested, you probably don't live on eating candy and desserts, you're probably somewhat active to keep your body functional, yet you're gambling eternity that your sin will someday pay off for you and you'll just cease to exist, peacefully going nowhere but the ground.
Everyone who dies gets an immortal body. For those who placed their lives with The Lord, its so they'll be acceptable to be in His presence. For those who *choose* not to be with Him, its so they cannot be destroyed with the fire of Hades... Jesus told the story of Lazarus and the "rich man" almost 2,000 years ago. People say that this is simply a "parable", yet this is the only one of His stories that He *names* some of the participants... I don't believe its just a parable. The rich man ends up begging Father Abraham to send Lazarus to him so he can place a single drop of water on his tongue (he's dead, but has a physical tongue), he says that he's literally burning... now, almost 2,000 years later, its a sobering thought that he is still there... no sweet relief of death... burning for eternity with full knowledge of each time that he had the opportunity to accept God into his life, yet *chose* not to.
Not that you're listening...
Last edited by CAPITALIST; 07/20/22. Reason: I wrote "over" instead of "almost"
"Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry." - Thomas Jefferson
Reliance on the bible is an exercise of cut and paste.
Don’t like cut and paste?
Cut and paste is ok, if one can understand and make relevant comment on what has been “pasted and cut.”
You and DBT will once in awhile try to cut and paste a Bible verse but you have little idea of what message it brings.
I strongly suspect DBT has not sufficiently studied and researched the Bible nor evolution to develop his own independent thoughts or beliefs. Hence, he will not post what he considers to be “proof” of evolution in his own words.
He can no more competently discuss “proof” of evolution that he can competently discuss the Bible verses he will sometimes post.
Ok….Mauser…. Let’s try this verse:
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Care to tell what this says?
Apart from the elephant in the room, being the fact it's an unsubstantiated assertion, there are some logical issues.
Also, since cut and paste is acceptable again, here's what I found:
You'll need to sort that out.
The logical issues are: 1. There was no sacrifice. Whether Jesus was human, or god in human form, he's now in heaven (hiding again) - ultimate goal, or status quo. Where's the sacrifice? 2. If god is so powerful why did he even bother was a blood sacrifice, and not just forgive everyone anyway? And there are still conditions to his/her/its unconditional love. 3. Other religions do not support the statement.
You seem to indicate there is a incongruity between the two passages you quote.
There are no contradictions here. Only your lack of perception and understanding. I can explain those verses to children and they get it.
Oddly, most people can read John 3:16 and formulate a reasonably accurate interpretation.
Apparently, you cannot…..
You divert, Bob and weave, obfuscate……why? I think you are afraid to consider John 3:16.
But, you are free to make your choices….. you are free to live in the dark. Those who live in the darkness are afraid of the light.
My take? You are living in fear and your strident opposition to Jesus is simply a child of that fear.
Last edited by TF49; 07/21/22.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
Two weeks ago I had occasion to spend some time with a literal “basement dwelling drug addict.”
This man has had a very unfortunate childhood….. revolving door of foster homes…. limited education, limited intellectual capacity…. tough and adverse circumstances in almost every area in his life.
Yet, he was struggling with his lot in life and struggling with the addiction. He is looking for relief and wants some “overcoming” in his life.
I thought that his attitude and courage to….”seek” … was indeed admirable. He is “seeking God and seeking help from God.”
He struggles…. He experiences some victory….. he stumbles….but has not given up. Guy has some grit.
I have great hope for him.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
Reliance on the bible is an exercise of cut and paste.
Don’t like cut and paste?
Cut and paste is ok, if one can understand and make relevant comment on what has been “pasted and cut.”
You and DBT will once in awhile try to cut and paste a Bible verse but you have little idea of what message it brings.
I strongly suspect DBT has not sufficiently studied and researched the Bible nor evolution to develop his own independent thoughts or beliefs. Hence, he will not post what he considers to be “proof” of evolution in his own words.
He can no more competently discuss “proof” of evolution that he can competently discuss the Bible verses he will sometimes post.
Ok….Mauser…. Let’s try this verse:
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Care to tell what this says?
Apart from the elephant in the room, being the fact it's an unsubstantiated assertion, there are some logical issues.
Also, since cut and paste is acceptable again, here's what I found:
You'll need to sort that out.
The logical issues are: 1. There was no sacrifice. Whether Jesus was human, or god in human form, he's now in heaven (hiding again) - ultimate goal, or status quo. Where's the sacrifice? 2. If god is so powerful why did he even bother was a blood sacrifice, and not just forgive everyone anyway? And there are still conditions to his/her/its unconditional love. 3. Other religions do not support the statement.
You seem to indicate there is a incongruity between the two passages you quote.
There are no contradictions here. Only your lack of perception and understanding. I can explain those verses to children and they get it.
Oddly, most people can read John 3:16 and formulate a reasonably accurate interpretation.
Apparently, you cannot…..
You divert, Bob and weave, obfuscate……why? I think you are afraid to consider John 3:16.
But, you are free to make your choices….. you are free to live in the dark. Those who live in the darkness are afraid of the light.
My take? You are living in fear and your strident opposition to Jesus is simply a child of that fear.
Damn TF49...just WOW, couldn't have said it better...and you are absolutely correct about all of the above....one of the TOP responses I have seen to date.
Same video, but you've gotta hit "play" and it'll come up right where the chariot wheel is
Anyone up for a trip to the Gulf of Aqaba? This chariot wheel (plated with a mixture of silver and gold) is still there and has been photographed by many independantly funded diving expeditions over the years... no explanations how it got there... 'cept one! hahahahahaha
Last edited by CAPITALIST; 07/21/22. Reason: The video shows the picture from the beginning
"Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry." - Thomas Jefferson
Same video, but you've gotta hit "play" and it'll come up right where the chariot wheel is
Anyone up for a trip to the Gulf of Aqaba? This chariot wheel (plated with a mixture of silver and gold) is still there and has been photographed by many independantly funded diving expeditions over the years... no explanations how it got there... 'cept one! hahahahahaha
Very interesting....the evidence found does correspond to biblical scripture...fascinating indeed.
Reliance on the bible is an exercise of cut and paste.
Don’t like cut and paste?
Cut and paste is ok, if one can understand and make relevant comment on what has been “pasted and cut.”
You and DBT will once in awhile try to cut and paste a Bible verse but you have little idea of what message it brings.
I strongly suspect DBT has not sufficiently studied and researched the Bible nor evolution to develop his own independent thoughts or beliefs. Hence, he will not post what he considers to be “proof” of evolution in his own words.
He can no more competently discuss “proof” of evolution that he can competently discuss the Bible verses he will sometimes post.
Ok….Mauser…. Let’s try this verse:
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Care to tell what this says?
Apart from the elephant in the room, being the fact it's an unsubstantiated assertion, there are some logical issues.
Also, since cut and paste is acceptable again, here's what I found:
You'll need to sort that out.
The logical issues are: 1. There was no sacrifice. Whether Jesus was human, or god in human form, he's now in heaven (hiding again) - ultimate goal, or status quo. Where's the sacrifice? 2. If god is so powerful why did he even bother was a blood sacrifice, and not just forgive everyone anyway? And there are still conditions to his/her/its unconditional love. 3. Other religions do not support the statement.
You seem to indicate there is a incongruity between the two passages you quote.
There are no contradictions here. Only your lack of perception and understanding. I can explain those verses to children and they get it.
Oddly, most people can read John 3:16 and formulate a reasonably accurate interpretation.
Apparently, you cannot…..
You divert, Bob and weave, obfuscate……why? I think you are afraid to consider John 3:16.
But, you are free to make your choices….. you are free to live in the dark. Those who live in the darkness are afraid of the light.
My take? You are living in fear and your strident opposition to Jesus is simply a child of that fear.
Originally Posted by TF49
There are no contradictions here. Only your lack of perception and understanding. I can explain those verses to children and they get it.
That’s not anything worth boasting about. Children do not have the thinking and reasoning ability that adults do – they can be fooled to believe in Santa Claus for example.
They are also able to be manipulated and coerced more easily that adults – Catholic clergy, for example, have for the longest time and continue to rely on this principle.
Originally Posted by TF49
You are living in fear ….
Fear of what? You have it ass backwards – you are the one with the fear. The fear is part and parcel of your superstitious belief - it's one half of the stick and carrot.
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.
That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.
I get it. Sin can be dileriously fun and we don't want there to be God or conscience or penalties. We're like kids hiding their head under pillows yelling, "You can't see me!"
God is real, we do have a conscience (no matter how well we have stifled it) and there are consequences to our actions or lack thereof.
Like I said, put your beliefs under the microscope and watch that movie "A Case for Christ". Its not even 2 hours long and for most of the movie, you'll totally agree with him. Lee Strobel was in your same boat about 40 years ago or so.
Can you see Zeus? Can you see Odin, Allah, Brahman, Shiva, etc? We can no more see, detect or interact with the god of the bible than the other god's that humankind has believed in. It's not event the same version of god between the OT and the NT, in the early days, the god of the tribe of Israel was a part of a pantheon, Yahweh the greatest of the gods.
Nor does quoting from creationist sites, especially on matters of science, biology, paleontology, astronomy, the age of the universe, etc, is absurd. It's absurd because they begin with a conclusion, special creation, and try to shoehorn everything into that model.
You and DBT will once in awhile try to cut and paste a Bible verse but you have little idea of what message it brings.
I don't try to copy and paste. I do in fact copy and paste verses that are relevant in portraying a picture of what the writers believed to be the nature of god.
The verses speak for themselves. I have no need to interpret or explain what they say.
The verses state quite clearly that God is responsible for evil, that God creates evil, that God creates not only evil, but the 'evildoer for the day of evil,'
This is explicitly stated in verse.
Originally Posted by TF49
I strongly suspect DBT has not sufficiently studied and researched the Bible nor evolution to develop his own independent thoughts or beliefs. Hence, he will not post what he considers to be “proof” of evolution in his own words.
You have no idea. You make assumptions as a means of defending the indefensible, denying what is written or trying to transform what is clearly said in something more to your taste.
It's called cherry picking. You are a gun cherry picker.
Nope…. Many times you have cut and pasted verses and then attached your own twisted and often flat out wrong interpretations.
I have called you on this many times.
This pattern of yours…. The misinterpretation of Biblical teaching and your lack of understanding goes back years.
Remember when you were rebuked by one who wondered how in the world a “non-believer”….. one who has obviously not studied the Bible …. deigns to lecture Christians about Bible and what the Bible teaches?
You are just simple troll.
You know not whereof you speak….. and what is “rich” is that you don’t seem to know it. You keep repeating your errors…..
Last edited by TF49; 07/21/22.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
I get it. Sin can be dileriously fun and we don't want there to be God or conscience or penalties. We're like kids hiding their head under pillows yelling, "You can't see me!"
God is real, we do have a conscience (no matter how well we have stifled it) and there are consequences to our actions or lack thereof.
Like I said, put your beliefs under the microscope and watch that movie "A Case for Christ". Its not even 2 hours long and for most of the movie, you'll totally agree with him. Lee Strobel was in your same boat about 40 years ago or so.
Can you see Zeus? Can you see Odin, Allah, Brahman, Shiva, etc? No, none of them actually exist We can no more see, detect or interact with the God of the Bible than the other non-god's that humankind has believed in. It's not event the same version of God between the OT and the NT, in the early days, the God of the tribe of Israel was a part of a pantheon, Yahweh the only true God(I fixed your grammatical and punctuation errors!)Absolutely not, you've obviously never read The Bible or you'd know that. No where do the *practicing* Jews give any credence to items of wood, stone or metal fashioned by human hands. They AREN'T gods
Nor does quoting from creationist sites, especially on matters of science, biology, paleontology, astronomy, the age of the universe, etc, is absurd. Are you for real?!!! I wasn't aware that the Laws of Physics were from "Creationist websites". The first citation was the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics; the second was the Law of Conservation of Mass & Energy, all the way through the FACT that NONE OF THE FOSSIL RECORDS support your own *THEORY* of us starting at the bottom and working our way up (you know, all of the things I've been complaining that you've been blowing off this whole time? It's absurd because they begin with a conclusion, special creation, and try to shoehorn everything into that model. The absurdity is yours as *you, yourself* started with the CONCLUSION that God could not possibly be true, then tried to shoehorn everything into that model. You along with all of the other lefties on the evolution side (you did realize whose team you were arguing for, right...?) make citations of laws, but then conveniently dismiss those same laws when they contradict everything you say
I'm really thinking you're incapable of intelligent debate because you do not even read (or you're just completely ignoring, which is even more proof that you're not capable of intelligent debate) the mountains of evidence that contradict you. How do you explain a perfectly in-tact chariot wheel more than 200 miles away from Egypt at the bottom of the Red Sea that happens to be *exactly* where the Bible said it would be? But this would be the most simplistic of the examples and you even blew this one off. I'm still praying for you guys
Last edited by CAPITALIST; 07/22/22.
"Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry." - Thomas Jefferson
The verses state quite clearly that God is responsible for evil, that God creates evil, that God creates not only evil, but the 'evildoer for the day of evil,' This is explicitly stated in verse.
It might seem that if God created all things, then evil must have been created by God. However, evil is not a “thing” like a rock or electricity. You cannot have a jar of evil. Evil has no existence of its own; it is really the absence of good. For example, holes are real, but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all He created was good. One of the good things God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or reject good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things, we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it......I can expound more, but I hope it makes sense, as it does to most Christians..
Those who are intentionally trying to undermine the Christian faith…including those here who clearly do so under the false pretense of “sorting fact from fiction” and “open and honest questioning”…clearly want people to get bogged down on the minutiae. It’s a tactic they use. None of that minutiae really matters. It certainly didn’t matter to Jesus’ earliest followers ‘after’ the resurrection, and it shouldn’t matter to Jesus’ followers nowadays either.
None of the big names among the new atheists (like Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, and Christopher Hitchens) have put a single dent in the historicity of the Christian faith. And the minions of theirs clearly haven’t, nor can they.
Christianity can stand on its own two feet. On its own two nail-scarred, resurrected feet. If the Old Testament had been lost, or if it had so many holes poked in it that it couldn’t be taken seriously anymore ~ that doesn’t tank Jesus. The fact that He predicted the destruction of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, and it happened exactly as He said it would ~ that’s pretty remarkable.
Then there’s the prediction of His resurrection, the many separate and independent eyewitness accounts of it, and the inexplicable birth and growth of Jesus’ early ekklesia. Even Bart Erhman, an agnostic/atheist world renowned Biblical scholar, admits that there’s no way to get to the 3.5 million Jesus followers that existed by the fourth century if there hadn’t been an explosive growth early in the life of the Jesus movement. Something about their message was pretty astounding and attractive.
And someone like Erhman or any of the big names among the new atheists (and certainly their minions) can dance around that all they like, because it’s clearly uncomfortable for them. But there was something clearly extraordinary happening.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/UMRDT3W.jpg)
