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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,402 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,402 Likes: 35 |
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,889
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,889 |
Only he knows where Dahmer & Hitler are. And the billions of others in heaven may also know, unless D&H had their souls identity changed as part of a Sinner Protection Program. To spend 40 pages debating it is foolish Why? Some people gots to know. Sounds dismissive. You don't get to know. Your not God. You spend an awful lot of time trying to disprove someone you don't believe in, right. It's more hatred for God than unbelief
Romans 5:1
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 2 |
Only he knows where Dahmer & Hitler are. And the billions of others in heaven may also know, unless D&H had their souls identity changed as part of a Sinner Protection Program. To spend 40 pages debating it is foolish Why? Some people gots to know. Sounds dismissive. You don't get to know. Your not God. You spend an awful lot of time trying to disprove someone you don't believe in, right. It's more hatred for God than unbelief Not really. Just pointing out a few issues that might warrant discussion for those that do believe - curious to see what they think and why. You're closed minded by saying that that's the way it is (all unsubstantiated of course), and no further talk about it. People will continue to ask questions and there's nothing you can do about it - come to peace with that.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,286 Likes: 15
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,286 Likes: 15 |
Typically hate the religious threads and where they end up.
The Working Out Your Salvation thread got me thinking and I didn't want to drop a big stinking turd on it, so now I'm starting one.
15 year old kid watched The Jeffery Dahmer movie, afterward she was
pondering it.
"Dad? Dahmer got saved and baptised. Do you think he went to heaven?"
We had a good discussion about it. And people's perceptions.
Campfire opinions? If Jeffery Dahmer's spiritual advisor is to be believed and I do believe him, Jeffery Dahmer confessed his sins, repented, asked Gods forgiveness and was baptized. His crimes were horrible but he did what the Lord asks of anyone seeking salvation. Who are we to judge? His repentance may very well have been real. The bible indicates King Saul and Nebuchadnezzar received salvation and they were rascals.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
Hebrew Roots Judaizer
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 22,016 Likes: 15
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 22,016 Likes: 15 |
They both could have been given up to a reprobate mind. Dahmer killed and ate folks. According to the law if you steal once, you've committed murder, adultery, the whole bit. Sin is sin PERIOD
If God dealt with the man, and he accepted Jesus, being born again (a new creation) then yes he could be as justified as anyone else. The apostle Paul had Christians put to death, and tormented followers of Jesus. God changed his heart on the Road to Damascus. People use the logic of man to explain God. The wisdom of man is foolishness with God. Only he knows where Dahmer & Hitler are. To spend 40 pages debating it is foolish Pretty much what we hashed out. Did he, sincerely? Or was he just trying to cover all the angles? That's between he and God. But he very well may have!
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,889
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,889 |
I'm not closed minded, I just know what I believe. Debate all you want to. Doesn't matter, I'll sleep peacefully regardless. BTW, I prayed on your behalf whether you like it or not
Romans 5:1
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,716 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,716 Likes: 6 |
Amazing. My college aged son and I had this EXACT conversation tonight. He and his roommates who are not Christians had watched the episode where it said he’d proclaimed faith & been baptized. My son’s roomies were astounded that that was possible.
Samuel explained it the same way I would.
To me what’s most amazing isn’t that Dahlmer might have been saved but that ANYONE is. According to our Lord, a man who looks at a woman in lust commits adultery; one who calls another “blockhead” (idiot, fool, etc) commits murder.
We’re all little Dahlmers running around when compared to the absolutely perfect holiness demanded by God. That’s me, my son, everyone but Jesus Himself.
That’s unbelievable.
I can’t know Dahlmer’s heart and wouldn’t claim to have any insight. A great theologian said from his deathbed, “grateful for the active obedience of Christ; no hope without it”. That is, Christ fulfilled God’s law perfectly on my behalf. Without that righteousness I’d be doomed to damnation. Without a grace that offers hope for Dahlmer I am without hope.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,290 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,290 Likes: 1 |
Salvation is God's prerogative, something of the spirit and not of this world. Jesus said for us not judge, referring to another's salvation. We are not to curse, that means seriously call for the damnation of another, has nothing to do with potty words.
We definitely can worldly judge someone for worldly actions, including killing them.
God gave us freewill, as individuals and mankind in total... he will not save us from each other here. There is no worldly/physical salvation. We can't 'do' anything on this world, works, to gain spiritual salvation, and no matter how much we want it for those we feel are evil, nothing worldly we can do that absolutely denies it.
Yes, Hitler could be with God, spiritually.
Kent Our genetic makeup and the life circumstances we are born into are not a matter of free will. A beggar living in Calcutta, crippled by his handlers to increase sympathy value and revinue, no education, no prospects and no hope of a better life was not a matter of free will or choice. Hitler, if born in Australia in this day and age would have no hope of realizing his dreams of dictatorship and conquest, and would likely eke out a living as second rate artist.... But…..DBT, living today……has access to the gospel of Christ and makes his decision to reject it. Seems like you would then be “without excuse.” Rather than a decision, it is a lack of conviction based on an understanding of history, the nature of faith, how the gospels were put togethet, their flaws and contradictions, etcetera. Had I been born before the age of science and reason, a more superstitious age, I'd likely to be praying in the chapel with the rest of the village population.....and of course, I would not be me. So, cutting through the bafflegab, is it correct that 1. yes….you have been made aware of those who testify for Jesus. 2. You reject Jesus and liken Him to be sorta like a “superstition.” Is that right? If so, you are clearly standing apart from the Son of God…. You are also denying the Creators claims…and you do not have a relationship with Jesus. So, you are clearly without excuse and a simple denial that “God, you failed to convince me” will not provide you with a pass. Just so you know….. Seek…..Find. Don’t Seek, Don’t Find…..
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 288
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 288 |
I figured out religion when I realized God does whatever he wants. All we can do is plead to be on his right side. If he accepts Jeff then there’s no question it.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,737 Likes: 4
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,737 Likes: 4 |
Salvation is God's prerogative, something of the spirit and not of this world. Jesus said for us not judge, referring to another's salvation. We are not to curse, that means seriously call for the damnation of another, has nothing to do with potty words.
We definitely can worldly judge someone for worldly actions, including killing them.
God gave us freewill, as individuals and mankind in total... he will not save us from each other here. There is no worldly/physical salvation. We can't 'do' anything on this world, works, to gain spiritual salvation, and no matter how much we want it for those we feel are evil, nothing worldly we can do that absolutely denies it.
Yes, Hitler could be with God, spiritually.
Kent Our genetic makeup and the life circumstances we are born into are not a matter of free will. A beggar living in Calcutta, crippled by his handlers to increase sympathy value and revinue, no education, no prospects and no hope of a better life was not a matter of free will or choice. Hitler, if born in Australia in this day and age would have no hope of realizing his dreams of dictatorship and conquest, and would likely eke out a living as second rate artist.... That's the beauty of the gospel. It's not a prosperity, worldly gospel. Salvation through Jesus works in any part of the world. Rich, poor, cripple, blind, doesn't matter. Your looking at it through a worldly perspective, because you are worldly. The god of this world (satan) has blinded you, and you embrace it. Until you humble yourself before the Lord Jesus your lost. Be careful neighbor, keep on this path and you may be given over to a reprobate mind never to return You didn't deal with what I pointed out about the role that genetics and environment plays in shaping us, how we think and what we do.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,737 Likes: 4
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,737 Likes: 4 |
Salvation is God's prerogative, something of the spirit and not of this world. Jesus said for us not judge, referring to another's salvation. We are not to curse, that means seriously call for the damnation of another, has nothing to do with potty words.
We definitely can worldly judge someone for worldly actions, including killing them.
God gave us freewill, as individuals and mankind in total... he will not save us from each other here. There is no worldly/physical salvation. We can't 'do' anything on this world, works, to gain spiritual salvation, and no matter how much we want it for those we feel are evil, nothing worldly we can do that absolutely denies it.
Yes, Hitler could be with God, spiritually.
Kent Our genetic makeup and the life circumstances we are born into are not a matter of free will. A beggar living in Calcutta, crippled by his handlers to increase sympathy value and revinue, no education, no prospects and no hope of a better life was not a matter of free will or choice. Hitler, if born in Australia in this day and age would have no hope of realizing his dreams of dictatorship and conquest, and would likely eke out a living as second rate artist.... But…..DBT, living today……has access to the gospel of Christ and makes his decision to reject it. Seems like you would then be “without excuse.” Rather than a decision, it is a lack of conviction based on an understanding of history, the nature of faith, how the gospels were put togethet, their flaws and contradictions, etcetera. Had I been born before the age of science and reason, a more superstitious age, I'd likely to be praying in the chapel with the rest of the village population.....and of course, I would not be me. So, cutting through the bafflegab, is it correct that 1. yes….you have been made aware of those who testify for Jesus. 2. You reject Jesus and liken Him to be sorta like a “superstition.” Is that right? If so, you are clearly standing apart from the Son of God…. You are also denying the Creators claims…and you do not have a relationship with Jesus. So, you are clearly without excuse and a simple denial that “God, you failed to convince me” will not provide you with a pass. Just so you know….. Seek…..Find. Don’t Seek, Don’t Find….. Bafflegab? It's just basic biology and psychology based on genetics, environment and culture. It's not even controversial.
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 96,108 Likes: 22
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 96,108 Likes: 22 |
Amazing. My college aged son and I had this EXACT conversation tonight. He and his roommates who are not Christians had watched the episode where it said he’d proclaimed faith & been baptized. My son’s roomies were astounded that that was possible.
Samuel explained it the same way I would.
To me what’s most amazing isn’t that Dahlmer might have been saved but that ANYONE is. According to our Lord, a man who looks at a woman in lust commits adultery; one who calls another “blockhead” (idiot, fool, etc) commits murder.
We’re all little Dahlmers running around when compared to the absolutely perfect holiness demanded by God. That’s me, my son, everyone but Jesus Himself.
That’s unbelievable.
I can’t know Dahlmer’s heart and wouldn’t claim to have any insight. A great theologian said from his deathbed, “grateful for the active obedience of Christ; no hope without it”. That is, Christ fulfilled God’s law perfectly on my behalf. Without that righteousness I’d be doomed to damnation. Without a grace that offers hope for Dahlmer I am without hope. Many say you must believe and confess with your mouth and that is all. Then there is this, where I fail. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/1z7VVLWF/Screenshot-20221007-190551-Photos-2.jpg)
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,719 Likes: 12
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,719 Likes: 12 |
Had I been born before the age of science and reason, a more superstitious age, I'd likely to be praying in the chapel with the rest of the village population.... Science & Reason are not mutually exclusive with God or salvation.
“When Tyranny becomes Law, Rebellion becomes Duty”
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version)
"And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,614 Likes: 25
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,614 Likes: 25 |
The banner truth in all of this discussion ~ salvation isn’t a reward for good people; it’s God’s gift to forgiven people.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,737 Likes: 4
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,737 Likes: 4 |
Had I been born before the age of science and reason, a more superstitious age, I'd likely to be praying in the chapel with the rest of the village population.... Science & Reason are not mutually exclusive with God or salvation. Actually they are at odds. Science is built on gathering and testing evidence in order to build a better understanding of the world, while each religion teaches their own theology based on what is written in a holy book and told to us by priests and prophets, which is believed on faith and where unlike science, questioning is discouraged.
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,119 Likes: 7
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,119 Likes: 7 |
Saul of Tarsus was a pretty bad dude and later seemed to do ok, no? I suspect he’s sitting pretty for eternity despite his transgressions. Again, that is between him and God.
As efw said, ALL have sinned and fallen short. None would pass heaven’s “entry exam”. Fortunately, there is a Savior who will render them GTG. Just gotta accept the gift. Amazing!
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 2 |
If a loving god were concerned with morality, then the outcome wouldn't be hard to work out.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,698 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,698 Likes: 5 |
James 2.
God has chosen the poor of this world who are rich in faith—Salvation is gained by keeping the whole law—Faith without works is dead.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,794
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,794 |
God knows. I don't.
Many have professed faith, but it was man-made as opposed to the result of being born by the Spirit.
I can say that with confidence, because the scriptures tell us that.
USMC 0351
We know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,794
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,794 |
James 2.
God has chosen the poor of this world who are rich in faith—Salvation is gained by keeping the whole law—Faith without works is dead. And because only One kept the Law (Christ) salvation is found only in Him. He is our Law Keeper.
USMC 0351
We know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
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