Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Why No Love For The S&W .40?

9mm's also have a choice of twist rates, IIRC, a Browning HP has a twist rate of 1-10" and a typical Smith 39-2 had a rate of 1-18 and change. Sorta like the difference between a Colt .357 (1-14) vs. the Smith's 1-18+. I have no idea what the twist rate of current Smith 9mms is, or those of other makers, but I never worried any about twist rates, figuring it was hard enough to hit the target in the right place first, then worry about the other stuff (just like when deer hunting, HITS count, misses don't).

I used to be a heckuva pistol shot, and didn't worry about these piddling things. Still don't. Aim right, shoot right, and get on with your life.

This is my rig (G23.4), and my two preferred carry loads:


No complaints.




GR

I was unaware of the earlier Smith 9mms having a different twist than 1:10. Thanks for the info.

With respect to "worrying about these piddling things", sometimes they are piddling, sometimes not. I used to have to worry about them cause it was my job.

Thanks, again, for the info.

Re: the twist issue, if a combo is accurate, then the twist is sufficient. As to how it affects terminal bullet performance, I AM a Fan of fast twist in rifles for many reasons, and they have a place in say revolvers shooting heavy for caliber slugs in magnum class rounds, assuming your cylinder accommodates said COAL.

All that said, I would have to see expansion test in bullets from typical handgun rounds like a 40 to be convinced there is a difference. I believe the construction has more to do with expansion etc. than anything else.

Personally, I just cannot fathom a meaningful different, at speeds say 1000-1200 fps - in how various twist rates change expansion. Anyone have any solid test info, I will be happy to review it.

I'm feeling a strong urge to order a Gen 5 G23. Some good deals out there right now, well below MSRP. I have the police trade in 22, lots of mags, and a bunch of ammo. My hope is that the recoil reduction will be more to my liking than the Gen 4 G22. The Gen 5 G23 is actually only one ounce heavier than the Gen 4 G22, but who knows. That might provide a noticeable improvement. I'm right on the edge.

PS Of course, if I opted for the G22 Gen 5 instead, that would be a 3 oz increase in weight. Haven't decided.

I don’t see how twist in a handgun makes a meaningful difference in terminal performance. As has been stated, as long as the projectile stable in flight, I would think differences in twist would be essentially undetectable in terms of terminal performance.

1/16 vs 1/10. If your target is 15” thick the slow-twist bullet makes roughly 1 revolution in target and the fats twist one makes 1.5. That’s before slowing down due to resistance. It’s not like it’s in there spinning like a buzz saw or anything.

Even if it makes some theoretical difference I would imagine it is minuscule compared to all the other factors. Heck, most 1911’s are left twist while most non-1911 .45 ACP’s are right twist. Spinning the bullet the ‘wrong’ direction would seem to be a bigger design challenge than the twist rate differences discussed above, yet the same bullets perform well out of both twist directions.

Heck, now you've thrown a wrench in the terminal performance equation! Don't bullet mfg. engineer the skives in bullets for Right Hand Twist?

Ok, that was just a joke.

I don't speak from theory. While I'm not foolish enough to claim that gelatine is a perfect substitute for tissue, I had enough experience with both to say it is the best that I know of.

Yes, I've seen twist make a difference in the terminal performance of handgun ammunition.

The question of its importance to you is one that only you can answer.

It does make for an interesting discussion, though.

Actually, not a joke, at all. Look at some of the fluted, solid projectiles. When I first saw them I asked "What happens if you shoot it from a Colt?".

The Mfg. looked at me and said "Why would it matter"?

"Left hand twist", I said.

Everything matters. The key is in knowing when it matters enough to be a consideration.

Unless a bullet is manufactured non-symmetric, as in twisted fluting in a given direction, it matters not whether it's shot from a left or right twisted barrel.

If twist really matters on target impact & performance, & I really can't say either way, someone post up some test results in gelatin that shows the difference.

Absence of some controlled testing it's just hypothetical & what someone thinks the observed in tissue damage.

MM

Boy we're really on to something today, ain't we?

Has any ever shot the 135 grain ammunition? Or the 155’s?



I’ve pretty much only shot 165 and 180’s. That’s usually the weights on shelves..

Yes.

You’re not missing anything.

It's not hypothetical, Buford Boone knows what he is talking about, because he has done the research to know.

Very interesting thread. Anybody shed some light on the old "one shot stop" criteria where the 357 magnum 125HP was the supposed #1 stopper and that is why the 357 Sig with the same bullet weight was designed? Also, does the Secret Service still use the P226/357? Also, when Gulf War#1 started, virtually ALL the 1911s in layup at the Crane Arsenal (Navy) in Indiana was depleted, by operators in the field. In 2003 during OEF, the SEAL Team deployed with us on JFK either had 1911s or HK 45s (suppressor capable).

The 155 grain loads are, in my experience, noticably snappier than 180s; to be expected as they are loaded hotter, notably higher ME levels. In Marshall and Sanow's data (somewhat dated now) The 155 grain load was the only semi-auto ammunition that equaled the 125 gr. .357 for one-shot stops. The .357 Sig did not yet have sufficient data points for it to be included.

I've never used 135 grain loads.

For a nice target load, try the 175g cast with 3.7g of tight group, you will be a true believer.

https://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=12

RA! RA! SISBOOOMBA!
SHAKE THOSE POM POMS JWP475!

I just love the forum cheerleaders...

I had a Heinie compensator on my old Delta Elite for awhile, and when I used the brand-new Nosler 135s in that thing, loaded hot, it really made that thing shoot flat, and the front sight rarely moved off the target at any range. The gases behind that little bullet made the comp function to it's best, but damn it was LOUD. Like, .38 Super LOUD, and it was pretty uncomfortable from that aspect. It was a lot of fun, though.