Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Acceptable accuracy , out to 400 yards

That's always been my goal and where I stop looking.
I'm a hunter, 400 yards is along poke for me and not possible most places.
Have killed a couple deer right around that range.




One thing that always puts me off about the 2-3moa being good enough is the fact that
Not all shots are at the chest. Or in the open. Your opportunity might be in a head shot at 100
yards with little else visible. (Had it, made it)
1 1/2 deviation from perfect leaves no wiggle room for error.

Or hustling across a lane/road in the thick stuff without checking up. That's what I run into fairly often, especially in the rut. 3-4 seconds to spot him and mentally range him, get him in the scope, judge him, and make the shot (or pass).[/quote]

That's what I had to deal with in SE Texas. Sometimes they crossed out on a pipeline right-of-way for a "tad" longer, ha. I got frustrated and just stayed on game trails in the woods. Me and ol Mod 94 picked them off around 30yds average, ha.

It works out to 600, Johnny MIC'Gutshot.

That's farther than you have any business shooting at big game.

This was almost gutshot because of a bad wind and elevation call. But he posts it anyway under "whatever it takes".

Did you range this with a laser, Johnny? Why did you blow the elevation?

From shot to shot, accuracy is certainly dependent on precision.

Just a minor detail to point out, but most guys on the thread are talking about accuracy requirements in terms of ES of the hypothetical group, but you are talking about half of the ES. So when I say that I want my bullet to hit within 1 MOA at 400 yards, that really means +/- ~2" from POA. When you're using the term " within 1 MOA," you mean +/- 1 MOA from POA. Just thought I'd mention it so we don't get wires crossed in this discussion.

Since distance of bullet travel is also dependent on time of flight, there's a relationship between wind drift and distance. Thus, as we all know, cumulative wind drift can be predicted at a certain distance of bullet flight based on the applicable environmental conditions, so if you know distance of flight you can calculate time of flight and subsequently wind drift.

"Almost a gut shot" is what kind of shot? Right in the lungs.

Old Jeff tried to give you a way out of your stupid post but you were to dumb and don't know how to shoot in the wind.

Weird but typical thread.

Bunch of dudes sitting around fantasizing and theorizing and calculating about shooting and making impacts on targets 400+ instead of actually trying to make hits by actually getting out and doing it.

You’ll learn more and faster by doing it

Seems so simple.

Makes a guy wonder how many folks get setup to shoot at distances beyond their zero and never actually do it in practice? And bad news if the first shots pst zero are on game.

As I have mentioned before ( before range-finder ) a misjudgement of range with the wind totally ignored (never crossed my mind), shooting off the handlebars of an ATV for rest resulted in me shooting a bull caribou's pecker tip off. They didn't LOOK that far away across the open tundra.

Not my finest moment.

After he laid down behind the three others, I knew I'd hit him, and at closer range, finished him off when he stood up again on my approach, at about 200 yards, where the wind was no longer a significant factor for the 140 gr .260 bullet.

Shorter ranges (and rests) are your friend.

when i am out west i always have a bi-pod ,pack or a tripod for shots at all game. in my home state of Minnesota i am in a stand with a bog tri-pod now days . wind many times that`s when you may have to use Kentucky windage some and maybe even the distance animal is at , animals don`t stand around so you can range it or check a wind gauge. that`s when you should have a very flat shooting rifle that`s accurate that you can handle cause recoil can suck too and quickly lay down or sit down if possible with a bi-pod can make a big difference. after 200 yards i need a rest to make the shot on a animal ,out too 200yards the Tubb`s stance works well for me with a decent trigger in the rifle i am using, power down too on scope.

Sadly; I think most of them. In my not super extensive guiding experience, everyone could tell me how high they hit at 100 but very few could tell me their zero range. None could tell me their wind drift unless they had worked it out on their phone, and many asked me to range shots that were inside 100 yards. It is both funny and not funny at all. Guys want to tell me how deadly they are at extreme long range but when I ask them about target displacement due to mirage I get a blank look. They haven't even heard of it. To be fair a lot of the guys I shoot F class with would do the same on that one.

Facts.

The average hunter is a non-shooting SOB

There probably isn’t many rifles with sights screwed on tight that couldn’t kill a deer at 400 yards. Twice in a row. In the rain.

Fair enough Jordan, but 1 moa at 400 yards is roughly 4" (actual of 4.188"). When you say you want to hit within 1 moa at 400 yards, that is within 4" in literal terms. However, What you are saying is you want a 1 moa group size, which would be 4.188" or 1 moa. Meaning, If you want to hit within 2" +/- from POA, that is roughly 1/2 moa from POA. That is just how it is man. Some of the fu ckinng cry babies here hate my pictures but fu ck them. Sometimes its easier to represent what someone is saying with good pictures. Here's a group that I think is big as hell from one of my new 300WBY rifles I recently put in a new stocK:

In this target, all of my shots are within 1/2 moa from POA. That equals dead dear and elk, but the group size is big as fu ck. Here's another target shot from another 300 magnum I recently bought:


Again, all shots are within 1/2 moa of POA (orange dot, incase you didn't know). Plenty good for any kind of hunting anyone does around here. We are not talking shooting whistle pigs here, but this is the kind of accuracy I appreciate when shooting at smaller targets:

In this target, all shots are within 1/4 moa from POA. 2 of the bullet holes are actually closer to 1/8 moa: Excellent for prairie dogs I shoot past 400 yards with this rifle.

I'm only showing 400 yard targets here, since that was in the OP. Now, take a look at this target. The bullet holes are close to 1 moa from POA:


It is acceptable enough for any big game hunt, but it shows you that I made a poor wind call. Just to show you that that schidt happens occasionally. Even at a measly 400 yards. I was shooting prone with no rear support. Much like I would be doing in canyon off of a pack. On a really calm day, it's easy enough to put them in within 1/4 moa of POA:


You don't need to be a mathman to figure out what I'm saying. "Within" 1 moa from POA means your group size can be 4.188x2= 8.376". In these terms, 1 moa from POA would be the measure of radius, where the center point would be your POA. We can ask him to double check my math and literal meaning if need be??

I may have to reiterate the simple fact that there is a difference between accuracy and precision. Accuracy is basically how close you can get to your target. Precision is how tight you can make your group. The question in the op was regarding accuracy. Unless he's really meaning precision???

Yes, I get your point, and you are correct. I just wanted to point out the difference in phraseology to avoid confusion.

Again, accuracy and precision are correlated. While I think the OP was simply interested in precision, here you and I are talking about our requirements for both accuracy and precision. The dispersion from shot to shot matters, as does the mean POI of all shots fired.

I have not been able to get a 400 yard 5 shot group smaller than 3 5/8" with any of my hunting rifles. My hunting scopes top out at 10x, to increase my range would I need a higher power scope, or buy a Creedmoor?

You are shooting .872 MOA at 400 yards.

This is a 100 yard fireform group from my 7mm Allen Mag. It has taken 54 whitetails from 375 to 1350 yards.

to 400, 1-1.25 moa is plenty good if you have proper rest and are confidant in your ability and equipment.

Over the last 50-some years, I have competed in BR, Fullbore (prone with a sling), "F" class, and metallic silhouette. I also hunt. I have a few hunting rifles from which I have never even fired a group from a benchrest position; yet, I feel perfectly comfortable hunting with them. In fact, NONE of my hunting rifles have been fired from a benchrest over the last five years. The only rifles which are regularly tested from the bench are those which will be used from the bench or from a rested position.
To answer the OP; if a rifle will shoot 1.5 moa, centered where you want it, it will be fine for big game out to 400 yards. Whether or not YOU will be fine is another question altogether. GD

This is what everyone forgets. Even a "2-MOA" rifle should hit within 4 inches of the bulls eye at 400 yards if sighted in properly..... of course the group size will still be about eight inches.