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Got this in an email. True or hoax?




This was sent from Canada to my friend in the States.

I saw on the news up here in Canada where Hillary Clinton introduced
her new health care plan. Something similar to what we have in
Canada. I also heard that Michael Moore was raving about the health
care up here in Canada in his latest movie. As your friend and someone
who lives with the Canada health care plan I thought I would give you
some facts about this great medical plan that we have in Canada.

First of all:

1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every
month of $96. for Shirley and I to be covered. Sounds great eh. What
they don't tell you is how much we pay in taxes to keep the health care
system afloat. I am personally in the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my
earnings go to taxes. A large portion of that and I am not sure of the
exact amount goes directly to health care our #1 expense.

2) I would not classify what we have as health care plan, it is more
like a health diagnosis system. You can get into to see a doctor quick
enough so he can tell you, yes indeed, you are sick or you need an
operation' but now the challenge becomes getting treated or operated
on. We have waiting lists out the ying yang some as much as 2 years
down the road.

3) Rather than fix what is wrong with you the usual tactic in Canada
is to prescribe drugs. Have a pain here is a drug to take- not what is
causing the pain and why. No time for checking you out because it is
more important to move as many patients thru as possible each hour for
Government re-imbursement.
4) Many Canadians do not have a family Doctor.

5) Don't require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours in the
emergency room waiting for treatment.

6) Shirley's dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it
required that his hand be put in a splint - to our surprise we had to
pay $125. for a splint because it is not covered under health care plus
we have to pay $60. for each visit for him to check it out each week.

7) Shirley's cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a
waiting list . Died before he could get treatment.

8) Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done
no more operations, unless you go to your local newspaper and plead
your case and embarrass the government then money suddenly appears.

9) The Government takes great pride in telling us how much more they
are increasing the funding for health care but waiting lists never get
shorter. Government just keeps throwing money at the problem but it
never goes away. But they are good at finding new ways to tax us, but
they don't call it a tax anymore it is now a user fee.

10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because
she is a smoker they will not do it. Despite paying into the health
care system all these years. My friend is 65 years old. Now there is
talk that maybe we should not treat fat and obese people either because
they are a drain on the health care system. Let me see now, what we
want in Canada is a health care system for healthy people only. That
should reduce our health care costs.

11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get.

12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze,
cigarettes, junk food and anything else that could kill me but I am not
allowed by law to spend my money on getting an operation I need because
that would be jumping the queue. I must wait my turn except if I am a
hockey player or athlete then I can get looked at right away. Go
figger. Where else in the world can you spend money to kill yourself
but not allowed to spend money to get healthy.

13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at tax
payer expense having never contributed a dollar to the system and pay
no premiums.

14) Oh yeah, we now give free needles to drug users to try and keep
them healthy. Wouldn't want a sickly druggie breaking into your house
and stealing your things. But people with diabetes who pay into the
health care system have to pay for their needles because it is not
covered but the health care system.

I send this out not looking for sympathy but as the election looms in
the states you will be hearing more and more about universal health
care down there and the advocates will be pointing to Canada. I just
want to make sure that you hear the truth about health care up here and
have some food for thought and informed questions to ask when broached
with this subject.

Step wisely and don't make the same mistakes we have.

It is a bit exaggerated and may well be the propaganda that emanates from the various doctor's lobby groups. There ARE serious problems, no question, but, it is far better then BEFORE the system existed.

I KNOW as I walk on a mangled leg, courtesy of a drunk driver, an incompetent surgeon and my parent's lack of money for corrective surgery. Had there been medicare, I could have had the surgery at 16 that would have corrected my deformity and maybe it would have healed properly.

There is a HUGE amount of BS about health care in Canada, our immigration-refugee system DOES play a part in this, but, I would be a bit cautious about info. like that, somebody has his knickers in a knot.

BTW, as to taxes, we DO need to reduce them and this current government IS doing just that....about time!

I do know this: several years ago before my parents quit going, they spent winters or part of them in the Phoenix/Mesa area. When my father had an MI and had his CABG, I was cruising the hosptital talking to folks and found out about 3/4 of the total joint patients were Canadien.

Witness England and the recent Muslim physician and his cohorts trying to blow up a dance hall,failed, then trying to drive into and through an airport. I've read that Brits are not gong to med school any longer because it promises a relativley dreary government-run, low-paying career; thus, an influx of third world and other Mus's med school applicants and hence a contigent of foreign physicians making up a large part of the physician pool. Long lines, waitng for procedures, second rate equipment often. By the way, the long waiting lines are not simply a result of fewer practitioners, less money and equipment and government inefficiency (did I way that). It is a way of rationing knowing that an actuarian-founded number will die before treatment as mentioned above thus sparing treatment, resources, and money. Go home, take an aspirin and call us in two years.

I'm not casting stones at Canada and England here for our system has its flaws but the only thing the government, any government can do efficiently is spend money faster than any other entity whle providing less. Unfortunately, we still need them to wage war and protect the borders. Can we all see how well a government can do this which it is supposed to do; imagine how well it can do that which it wasn't intended to do.

It always imazes me how history repeats itself. At one time I thought socialism was dead - visit the many successful socialistic countries. How about a summer home in Cuba? And I also thought national health care was dead. Would we want our whole countries health system to emulate our VA system?

Kute, for all our health system's foibles, you would have gotten your leg fixed....as a youngster.


Gdv

I would HARDLY consider Canada to be NOT a ...successful country..., actually we are probably the MOST successful democracy in human history. The major problems here are caused by exactly the type of drug-dealing criminal riff-raff that you also have as does every nation on Earth...and MOST of "ours"ARE immigrants and from specific regions.

My point is that my needs WERE NOT met under the supposed "free enterprise"system and it was too late to really fix this leg when medicare was introduced. I strongly favour medicare, we just need to slightly renovate our system.

As a former Canadian Coast Guard member, BC Forest Service and Alberta Forest Service employee, I also disagree with your comments on all government efficiency. I have seen a lot of BS when working in private industry, more than in government in my time. But, in the wonderful world of politics, things here HAVE changed for the worse....kinda like a lot of the USA, where certain ethnic groups fly foreign flags over "the Stars and Srripes"....the rot is everywhere!

I think that changes are coming here and some private industry is working in health care now; our system works pretty well for most but can be improved.

I would say it needs more than slight renovations.Yes our system is affordable,but then again,specialized facilities are in short supply and it is common to wait years for specialized treatments.Many people do go south of the border to pay for treatment rather than to risk dying while waiting for their turn.And it certainly is not equal for all Canadians,as politicians and professional athletes get immediate treatments without waiting in line.
Our system is better than that in many other countries,but it certainly could use significant renovations.
And you would have to be pretty naive to not realize that the lower premiums are because the system is primarily paid for by our extremely high tax rates.

No, Kute. I wasn't referring to Canada as a socialist country even though you have socialist tendancies. In my mind I was making communism synonomous with socialism and hence my reference to Cuba. I do consider Canada a "successful" country.

When I make a comment like "government inefficiency" I'm generalizing which means that there are exceptions to what I say in individuals, some offices, some branches, and that this varies greatly by degree. But generally, generally, the bigger organization gets, the more complex it gets, by necessity a bigger administration is needed, hence beaucracy, and by the nature of man and organizaional systems efficiency drops. This is true in churches to county, to state/provincial, to national government.

The fact that this happens in private industry too is beside the point. At least there, greater efficiency means greater profits which is a strong motivator to keep things streamlined.

Most of my comments about government inefficiency were in reference to our own down here.

About your leg, it's possible that because you are a little older than I the outcome down here would have been the same; I should acknowledge that. However, now all the yapping in this country about the poor needing health care and not getting it (they should)is for the most part not true. They, Hispanics, etc. are inundating the nation's ERs esp in the southwester tier of states and they are not denied. It's unlawful. But these needy are sapping the hospitals being able to stay solvent; consider that a profit margin in a typical hospital hovers around the 1% area. No fluff or great margin there.

So, yes, we have our problems, very big problems, and our government for some reason I fail to fathom, is abrogating it's responsibility for handling the very biggest of them right now: border security, the moral free-fall of our culture, energy (greenies are obstructionist), illegal immigration, and etc.

Gdv

If, you lived here for a short time, I think that you would see that our ...socialist tendencies... are not especially prevalent and what little there have been are rapidly declining. Most Canadians support medicare and it is now a staple of Canadian society, one of the few post-WWII government policies that actually has done some good.

I take your point about government in general, however, I think this is a reflection of the decadent society we live in, where "porn"is considered "cool"and so are violent, mindless movies, TV shows, video games and a nihilistic, self-centered attitude in general. Here in Canada, we frequently have gangs of pubescent girls beating others and using language that many loggers blanch at.....the effects of moral relativism, child-centered education and all the rest of the '60s crap...as you are only too aware.

Immigration to both countries has been/is a MAJOR problem, you have gazillions of illegals and we have "the multicult mob" who are allowed to bring their elderly, infirm relatives here to use OUR med. system, without ever having contributed to it...as the initial post mentioned. Of course, if a Canadian DARES to complain about this, the screams of "racism" immediately destroy any rational debate....sound familiar?

As a lifelong "greenie" and TRUE conservative, I don't see the obstructionist problems you mention, however, I am not as familiar with US situations as I might be. Other than the real whackos like PETA, my impression is that "greenies" tend to be very positive, well-educated and productive people who simply want to keep the Biosphere healthy, a necessary prerequisite to human health, IMHO.

I do not trust ANY politician and believe that we have the responsibility for our own health; I have no major problem with some of the changes coming in terms of greater private involvement in healthcare, however, I do support the system we now have and spending the money to fix it. Beats giving tax grants to terrorists from other lands, which has happened here and recently.

I'm afraid that my experiences tend to agree with just about all the points on that list.

My wife and I have toyed with the idea of returning to Idaho from time to time but health care is one of the big arguments against it. We have relatives who have been bakrupted by medical catastrophes. That won't happen here.
My wife was recently diagnosed with breast cancer. If we were in Idaho, we could look forward to possibly losing everything we own. If we had insurance, they would pay a percentage of the cost or maybe they would try to wriggle out of paying anything (labeling any form of cancer a pre-existing condition is a common theme).

Hatari:

Your friend left out one very important point. In Canada (at least in the province of BC)if someone is in jail and needs an operation, they go to the front of the line. Isn't that wonderful ?

Patrick

Be thankful for the gov system ya got. Here in the UnitedCorporationsOfAmerica we have health insurance...if you are healthy you can get and maybe afford insurance but if yau are sick ya go without unless ya poor enough to get into a gov program.

Insurance companies are in the business not to help or heal but to make money...no way around that issue. This puts alot more US citizens at risk and poor health than what you have in Canada.

Down here in Texas we pay big time property taxes to keep up the public health system to treat those without insurance and yes illegals also.

So would you like to trade?...LOL

As a lifelong "greenie" and TRUE conservative, I don't see the obstructionist problems you mention, however, I am not as familiar with US situations as I might be. Other than the real whackos like PETA, my impression is that "greenies" tend to be very positive, well-educated and productive people who simply want to keep the Biosphere healthy, a necessary prerequisite to human health, IMHO.

Kute,

I'm not entirely antagonistic to greenie sentiments considering myself a conversationist also but it's the far left greens who obstruct drilling in ANWR, the Gulf of Mexico, and would prevent nuclear reactors for energy. Well, fine, but don't go screaming about being energy dependant then. This is typified by our Senator Edward Kennedy who being a leftist hasn't met an environmental-energy issue he hasn't liked but, Sshhhhhhhhh, just don't put those wind generators in the bay in front of his summer home (they can go in someone else's front yard).

My wife told me this afternoon to be careful I don't get too cynical. OK.

Gdv

Hatari the article is 100% correct and worst in some areas of Canada. Granted on the west coast things are better due primarily to the better weather conditions, but go up to High Level or even Grande Prairie, Alberta and see what you get for medical care. I know of a hunting partner who passed away in his bed to the shock of his wife who discovered him. He had gone to the emergency (hospital) 2 times prior with chest pain and sat around for afew hours after which he left and went home. He died because his family doctor had moved to USA for a better pay and living conditions and his impatience at the hospital emergency. I had to go to Thailand for a hip operation with my own funds, because I wasn't going to wait around for 2 years and loose my home and automobile for non payment. That was 13 years ago. Nothing has changed and the system is just as F**ked as ever.

I was in the Bangkok Hospital in Pattaya Thailand last winter. Seven story Hospital with 7 MRIs, 1 on each floor. That is more MRIs than are in the entire Province of British Columbia.

An MRI only costs around a million one, I know because before I retired we put one in a Veterinary Clinic we built in Tacoma. There are now 5 MRIs in Vet Clinics in Western Washington, the same amount as in BC.

There is no excuse for not having one in every Hospital in the Province and no excuse for someone having to go to Vancouver from Williams Lake, 600 Kilometers, just to get an MRI.

Sitting in the dark waiting for power to be restored to our little outpost of civilization.

There ARE excuses, boy, THAT'S the PROBLEM and it exists because every sorry sob and his brother who lives here EXPECTS that GOVERNMENT will give him whatever he wants.

Look at the tax $$$$$ spent on "multiculturalism", "treaties" for mixed-race people who ALREADY get far more benefits from our tax base than other Canadians, the various "mega-projects" to funnel tax dollars into both corporate and union pockets and on and on and on......

Yet, we are short of prison space, the "Queen's Cowboys" are understaffed, the Forest Service and especially Fish and Wildlife are as well and teacher's aides, nurses and doctors are far too few....but, a recent government gave a Sikh temple OVER a million bucks,largely used for paving a parking lot!

THEN, there is the millionaire Sikh immigrant whom they "lent" big bux to for his "trial"in the Air India fiasco.....MRIs for sick Canucks, well, THEY ain't a priority.....bloc votes are!

You said it exactly how it is Kute. The government cares not about its people, it cares only about buying votes from minorities with our tax dollars to keep in power.

Kutenay I have family in various part of Canada and I here
the stories. eg My step brother in Calgary was hurt (his shoulder) and need surgery after 15 months he was still waiting
for the operation only 1(one) doctor for all of Edmonton & Calgary to do operations. Finally after almost a yr. and one-half
they did physical therapy and sent him back to work.
Another member in Ontario waiting 9 months for heart surgery thank goodness he didn;t die. But I think the final straw is all
the canadian doctors we run into down here that have fled the
system in canada. PS they are not minorities but good canadian stock. Cheers NC

But on the other hand, take my experiences.

I was diagnosed with severe but stable angina in Oct 2002. Surgery set for Feb 03. On Nov 20/02 I wasn't so stable any more and went into ICU and had a quad on Dec 3/02.

Then this past summer, on a Friday I was in Emergency passing a gall stone(Cheez that hurt). On Monday I had a ultra-sound and on Tue AM I had an endoscopic procedure to remove the other stones. Three week later I had the gall bladder removed.

So far, I'm ok with our medical system.

Due to my employment situation I can chose wether I want Canadian health care or insurance in the States. I chose insurance in the States, even though it cost me more money.

I can not speak for Canada or the USA but the system in Australia is you are taxed about 1% of your gross wage so if you are on $100,000 its $1,000 or if you are on $25,000 its $250 if your unemployed or retired or just got no money at all you are covered. Foriegners get free hospital treatment including operations but the local doctor is not free for them. It seems to work ok but if you have private health insurance you can jump queues and get private rooms but basically you do not have to pay even if operations cost $thousands. I do know a Canadian I work with and he says the Australian system is better.