Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Critique of the 300 Win Mag for elk

I've killed elk or seen elk killed with just about everything from a .222 to a 45-70. Yes even a .270. Now I've killed my share, but most of them have been with the 35 Whelen or 7mm Rem. mag. This last elk was killed with my new 300RUM. Now as my name implies, I thrive on recoil and know how to deal with it.

That being said I have to agree with what others have said here. Some people shouldn't be allowed loose in the woods with much more than a 22lr and limit their hunting to such things as can be taken with a 22lr.

As for the 300 Win mag as an elk cartridge? In the riht hands it's a beutiful thing.

RJ

I am pleased with the tone of the thread that emerged from my initial posting. I put it up with some fear that it would generate another love 'em/hate 'em pissing match that seem altogether too frequent recently.

I think the takehome message is that the bottom line in hunting success is the ability to shoot well, and the various 300 Magnums generate too much recoil for many shooters who do not get very much practice. There is no doubt that the 300 Magnums are hugely capable, but only if the shooter develops the skill needed to master that capability. Thinking that merely buying a magnum adds 100 yards to your effective range is folly, inasmuch as it might actually decrease your proficiency, at least until you mastered it.

As a side note, the local range has recently been lengthened from 100 to 300 yards. I think that has been a huge wakeup for many of our resident bubbas. First of all, they are now seeing how far 300 yards really is ("dang, that target is small" is a common refrain) and they are also learning that they cannot hit a 300 yard target hardly at all. Their "I can hit a deer at 700 yards with a 30-30" bravado has toned down a bunch.

Funny thing about recoil; at the range I feel it. At game, I don't. Almost don't hear the shot either. I am pretty comfortable / confident with my 300 WM 180NP. As stated repeatedly, practice is the key, not caliber. Some guys have the big truck, little **** syndrome when it comes to large caliber. In and of itself there is no value without practice.

The 300WSM with 180's at 2900 fps does not recoil much in a 7 3/4 pound full up rifle. That is why I went that way instead of the 300WM. I know I don't shoot as well with guns that kick bad.

Utah,

This is an excellent thread. I hope I don't steer it the wrong way.

One of the major reasons that the 270 Win, 7x57 Mauser, 280 Rem, 30-06 Sprg and others like them are so popular, and succesful on elk size critters, is that they represent the most powerful rifles the AVERAGE hunter can master. Anything less, with a not so perfect hit, can cause a wounded critter and a long tracking job, not to mention the suffering of the critter. Anything more and there's a chanch the noise and recoil will, sooner or later, cause the dreaded trigger jerk or flinch. A round from the above mentioned class of power in the boiler room is infinitely better than one in the paunch from a big kicking magnum. Trouble is, many hunters don't get the opportunity to try out a bunch of different rifles and pick one that works for power, noise, recoil, and accuracy for them.

Wayne

As you may have seen, I have another thread going about the hunt during which I had this conversation. I shot my cow elk with a 375 H&H and you could surely ask why. The answer is simple--because I have been intimidated by the gun but am planning on taking it to Africa next summer. This is my first big gun and need to have more confidence with it than even range time can provide. I have quite frankly been afraid that I would tighten up or flinch when I touched it off. But when I shot it at the elk I never heard it or felt it--which is always the case. It rocked her back unlike any other round I have used, and I believe in it in a different way than I could before.

I certainly did not need the 375 to shoot a cow; I have had perfectly good success with calibers as light as 6.5-06. But the range shooting I have done with the .375 cannot substitute for real field experience.

I think that here at the campfire we sometimes forget how fringey we are, and how the bulk of the hunters are in a very different place. I asked my guide that day "how many hunters are using the Barnes Triple Shock?"---"Don't know, never ask." After my hunt partner shot his elk, he asked me "Well, are these Remington factory loads with Corelokt bullets good for elk?" as if bullet construction explained why his gutshot cow had taken him six shots.

We get in these protracted and often heated debates about esoterica like whether using turrets or ranging reticles is better for long range shooting. I think we can forget than many of our fellow hunters are hard put to get their guns sighted in or make a basic 200 yard shot. That is not intended as elitist backsplapping, but just an observation.

My 18-year old son has a .270 with which he has now taken most of the 15 big game animals under his belt. Including three elk. He just flat believes in that gun, as well he should. I just hope he doesn't get a wild hair and trade it in on some UltraWhackenboomer. It would likely be a step in the wrong direction because he is not a looney and actually does not do all that much shooting.

As a final word--as my quide walked up to my elk, he said "Boy it is nice to have hunters that can shoot." Doesn't that about say it all?

That is exactly bang on the money. Never before was this more apparent to me than this fall when I was sneaking up on an immature bull moose with my partner and had a couple of fellas drive up to them in a pickup, spooking them up into a cutblock. After establishing claim on who saw them first, and who had right of shot, (me) I listened in awe as the middle aged guy asked the old boy how far he figured they were away...Answer, from the old boy, "well, 450 at least, and with the slope, over 600 yards....too far". Well, at least they had one thing right, at 270 meters up into block, they were too far for them to shoot.
And with the lighting, it was too far for me to positively identify the bull as an immature. Although I dearly wanted to hammer that "600 yard" bull to the ground...

I've heard (rumors) that some fail R.D.'s shooting test outright (and presumably come back for a retest?)

Did he say the test applies to the 15K hunts too I wonder ?

The ranch schedules sight-in days at a couple of ranges around the state in August during which people are expected to qualify. If you don't pass, you can just reshoot at the time. But because I am a local looney, I have been asked to help out at those qualification shoots to assist people who cannot get their guns on the paper. I will admit to having seen some scary things. The most memorable was a guy who showed up with a shoebox of mixed centerfire ammunition and sorted through them looking for ones that would fit. The sense I got was that the caliber marking on his gun had a "7" in it, and he sorted through the box until he found a shell with a "7" on it. Maybe it wasn't that bad, but it weren't much better, either.

All I know is that when I was guiding, if we saw a 7Mag or a .300 come off the Snake River jet boat, the lowest wrangler got that man. Usually, the the guys couldn't shoot them worth a crap and they ended up either missing multiple elk (which is always a piss-off) or wounding elk (even more of a piss-off).

It was their $5,000 hunt, but we didn't want any part of that. Let the lowliest wrangler have the elk rodeo.

It's so simple to take a normal rifle, a decent bullet (even cup-and-core for pity's sake), get halfway close to an elk and carefully place the single bullet where it will kill the freakin' elk. No muss ... no fuss ...just DEAD. Hell, the female cookie did it every year with a flippin' .250 Savage and iron sights; how hard can that be?????

The guy we wanted was the old dude with a .308 and a 4X or 2-7 Leupold and 150-grain bullets. Believe it or not, we had such a hunter; he was a retired postman and he could walk. To make it even better, he absolutely refused to shoot over his self-imposed maximum range of 200 yards. We killed one hell of a lot of elk together and I never saw him shoot twice. And I never saw him miss.

Even though I have killed many, many elk with a .300 Weatherby, a .340 Weatherby and a .338 WinMag, I was never as good with any of them on game as I was with smaller capacity rounds.

I just plain killed elk better with a .30-'06, a .280 Ackley, a .338-'06 and a .25-'06. Heck, I've even killed some fair elk with the .45-70. Frankly, I know my limitations and am fully willing to admit that I'm not macho-man enough for the Magnums.

I'm sure that lots and lots of guys can shoot Magnums and Ultras well in the field Good for them; I've just never guided one nor do I count myself among their elite ranks, but I am very pleased for them.

I better stop here before I piss off a lot of Campfire folks. Just reporting what I've seen in the bush.

Steve

ONe of the guys in my elk camp shows up with random ammo every year; whatever strikes his fancy. It's mind boggling to someone like me who plots and plans and analyzes and, let's face it, overthinks the whole thing!

I bought my brother a 30-06 to be his one big game rifle. Well, at least until he can afford to get whatever else he wants. It's a M700 and I put a 2-7 Leupold on in and, as it turned out, that damn rifle SHOOTS! I gave it a good workout before I gave it to him. In fact it shoots 165-gn Corelokt's like you wouldn't believe, so I tore the end off a box, TAPED it to the butt of the rifle when I gave it to him, and said "that's your deer round right there, it's sighted in for it (but we'll check with you behind the wheel) it's cheap, it's accurate as hell in your new rifle, and it'll work great. We'll work up something else when it's time to hunt elk".

(He's putting himself through the U of W and has a baby on the way and is poor right now)

So, next year, we get together to hunt and what does he have for ammo? A box of 150-gn Winchester something or the others!

Gaaa!

-jeff

I use a 300 Weatherby or a 8MM Remington Mag for Elk. The problem with the bigger guns is the shooter not the guns. But they won't allow themselves to say it they are manly men LOL.

I have carried a lot of things, from 30-06 to 45/70, but I'm settling towards .338 WM and .325 WSM. I think. I'll probably end up using the 30-06 again eventually!

The key is to SHOOT THE DAMN THING a lot! That's where the aforementioned handloading really helps. It's just a different way to buy your ammo. I can see how $40/box ammo would hurt folks. Even if I spend $25 for 20 rounds of premium handloads, I buy it as components so it just feels different, I would imagine, to shoot it up.

-jeff

A friend of mine used to run a very small outfitting business. Just him and maybe one or two guides at most. When he first started the business he didn't give any advice to hunters on what caliber to bring on a hunt. He figured the hunters knew what caliber to bring.

After a couple of years of guys bringing muzzle-roaring monsters he started telling every hunter who inquired about what caliber to bring that a .308 with a 22" barrel and a 2x7 Leupold was the perfect combination. Although a .270 .280 or 30-06 pleased him also. He also said hunters showing up with a well worn rifle usually knew how to use them.

In the past I've owned and shot a lot of 300 mags and I'd be lying if I said I did not think they constitute,as a class,among the best cartridges avilable for elk and similar-sized animals. But the ability to shoot them well varies so much among hunters because I think they get bought and used by guys who do not practice a great deal with them.These guys tend not to be very good with anything, but lighter recoiling,quieter rounds help.

The best 300 shooters I see are the guys who handload a lot,put in lots of range time year-round,and know the rifles pretty intimately.They have hunted a great deal and shot a lot of animals.In the hands of these guys a 300 is pure poison,if they put good bullets in the right place.I really truly beleive that 300's as a class, and with 180-220 gr bullets, belong more in the class of the mediums like the 338 and 340,etc. Which is to say they are a LOT OF RIFLE.

To me, the 7 mags represent a significant step down in recoil,portability, and manageability, while still doing a pretty good job at killing when ranges get longish, which is why I've liked and used it so much over the years and at present own two, and just ordered a third.Those who like energy figures as a guide can look at any load manual and see that a 160 7mm bullet started at 3100 is behind a 180gr 30 cal at long range by only about 300 ft lbs or so.No doubt the 300's maintain an edge but animals only take so much killing, and the 7mm is more shootable for many (me).

I am whacking around now looking for a 300 H&H;not because I need it, but because I love the old cartridge and those fabulous old M70's,and have a bunch of 165 Bitterroots to feed it and know I can get them to 3150-3200. They will be a bomb on about anything I care to shoot; but I also know my big 7's will accomplish about the same thing with less fuss, in a lighter rifle.

Due to my just ended 24 years in the USAF--along with other some other factors, I have found I have much more time at the range than in the field. Since I start hunting seriously in 1994 I have taken 15 deer, 7 hogs, and 1 elk. I have used: 7mm RM (6 deer), 300 Winny (5 deer, 1 hog), 416 Rem (3 hogs), 280 Ack (1 hog) 338 RUM (1 elk), 338 Win (1 hog), and a 30-06 (4 deer, 1 hog). I missed with the first two shots in a row after I had a year layoff from shooting--immediately preeceded by two years of only once a year shooting--while I was assigned overseas. However, I recovered nicely the nest day by getting three hogs with 2 shots.

In that same time at the range I have put thousands of rounds through everything from a 22 LR to a 470 Nitro. Most of this was from the bench. I have dabbled a little in 1000 yd BR and shot a couple of Highpower matches. Did okay in both types of competition.

Now that isn't as much experiece as many here, and I am not the expert on any shooting discipline. However, this I know to be an absolute fact. With a properly functioning rifle, properly sighted-in, and aimed in the right spot; all you have to do is pull the trigger when the sights/scope are/is aimed where you want. If you do that you'll always hit what you want, regardless of the chambering you are shooting.

To say it more simply; only pull the trigger when the gun is aimed where you want.

This works from EVERY shooting position with ANY type of shooting.

The only catch is it takes a fair amount of practice to be able to do that simple thing....................

Blaine: The last sentence is the key to the whole thing.

Bob,
You guys are spot on with the analysis and shooting over 70g of gunpowder. Takes lots of practice and the realization that it doesn't matter whether a bullet exits a 26" tube @ 3200 or a 20" tube @ 2750 if it hits in the wrong place or misses the amount of gunpowder burned makes absolutely no difference. Years ago I hunted with 308's and 270's (still have the original M70 in 270) and one day (years ago) a buddy of mine talked me into building a 300 WM. It's on it's 4th tube and has been my go to rifle for the past 15 years and the only reason it's lasted that long is I had a brake installed about 5 years ago. Can't hear anymore but I could handle the recoil better.
Went to a 300 WSM in a Tika T3 two years ago (works good) and built another 7MM RM (9# gun fully dressed). My 13 year old will be hunting with my 6MM next week (instead of his .223) and I was looking real hard at my old 270 last night.
Next gun project is probably going to be a 7MM-08 Improved. As you can see there is a pattern here.

Dave

Most hunters don't shoot, plain and simple. For those who don't shoot much, a magnum just makes things worse for them. Obviously the magnums are great if you can shoot them. I've hunted elk and bear with my a .270 all my life. Never had an issue. Everything but one mule deer dropped like lightning hit it. That deer I shot at 30 yards, it looked at me, trotted away like nothing was wrong, then fell over 40 yards away stone dead. I refused to shoot it a second time, figuring if I missed it, I should go home. I used to shoot at least 1000 rounds a year through my 270 (90g Sierra HPBTs at 3450 fps for varmints in Montana), (150g Noslers at 3000 fps for deer, elk and bear). I gave it to my younger son this year (he's 15 now), so I'm going to hunt with my new 375 H&H. I plan on putting 500 rounds a year through it. It will be my only hunting rifle.



Chuck