Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The Siege of the Alamo?

Hard to believe but exactly what happened at the Alamo wasn’t worked out until 1874 (??) when the State convened a commission for the purpose. By that time commercial and residential development had already impinged on the original mission footprint. Widespread ignorance prevailed, as late as 1903 when one Adina de Zavala locked herself inside the Long Barracks for three days to prevent their demolition, the resulting publicity prompting the Governor to intervene.

As to that “ethnic portion of the population doing all they could”. Who? The Germans? Alsatians? Polish? Czechs?

If you mean Tejanos and Mexicans, they were politically powerless here well into the 1970’s at least, by which time everything present now was already in place.

I wish you coulda been here when the famous Travis first day letter was on display, lines so long a four-hour wait time to get in. You woulda been astounded at the number of Tejanos on that line, I know I was.

I found it very interesting how the mission, has morphed into fort, military barracks, and now historical place.

Some say the dollar encroached on the property, probably a huge factor.

But over centuries, pragmatism was also at play. My humble opinion.

Have never been a huge history buff, but San Antonio has me intrigued for some reason.

If anyone wants to get a better idea of what the area around the Alamo might have looked like without all the city encroaching on it, check out some of the other preserved mission sites in the San Antonio area (administered by the National Park Service)..

Not everyone that's come here to live has
thought of the Alamo as a sacred site.
It's been used as storage and everything
else you can think of.
Some of the people in charge over the
years thought of the site as an embarrassment.
Some politicians have suggested that
the Alamo was a symbol of the theft of
mexican lands that should be repatriated
to mexico. Lots of reconquistas around today
that people don't notice or ignore.
Many support the notion

I attended a conference last year in June in San Antonio. My Hotel, and the Conference center are within walking distance, so I arrived a day early so I could take in the Alam0. It was HOT that day and extremely humid.

However, I found the Alamo a very poignant visit with time. All you have to do is look around and see all the pock marks on the wall and you KNOW what made them.

I had just missed Birdy, as I had struck up a conversation with one of the Alamo Polic Officers. Nice friendly guy he was. Certainly lot's to look at if you are a people watcher as I am........

Definitely worth the trip!

Frog---OUT!

Agreed - see my mention of Mission Espada above.

Wasn’t the Germans! 🤣

One aspect I bring out in talking to visitors is just how scared that collection of Defenders must have been. There had been talk about defending the Alamo, but most men and resources were properly being directed to the true gateway to Texas, an actual defensible stone fort; Presidio La Bahia at Goliad. Also, no one proposing to defend the Alamo ahead of this was thinking the suicidal odds of less than 300 men in a crumbling mission vs. 2,500 soldiers.

Goliad marked the first available ford of the San Antonio River when traveling up from Mexico.

That first morning of February 23rd they were so surprised by the appearance of 200 uniformed Mexican cavalry from the west that Mexican accounts say they recovered 50 American rifles in the town. Our people, after the Bexarenos evacuated the town, had been escaping the cold in their empty houses and apparently the owners of those rifles weren’t able to retrieve them.

What they were able to get inside the mission on Day 1 was about 400lbs of dried corn and maybe thirty random cattle. Sounds like a lot but not so much between 200+ people for twelve days. No mention of firewood either. No preparations for a siege had been made, I doubt there was firewood stockpiled.

The ailing Bowie’s first response on Day 1 was to send a messenger with a letter asking “what are your terms?”, ie. how can I get us out of this predicament.

Travis’ first response was to send an eighteen pound cannonball bouncing through the arriving Mexican force. Not usually mentioned however is later that same day he too sent out a messenger stating when he fired that shot he was unaware that negotiations (ie. Bowie’s message) were underway and asking if they were still willing to negotiate.

Attempts to escape certain death at the Alamo by negotiating their way out would continue until the very last night. The best intelligence now too is that, if Santa Anna hadn’t attacked when he did, a breakout after dark would have been attempted within a day or two so that at least some might have a chance.

Rather than diminish their reputation I believe this enhances it. They could have put up their hands and surrendered any time and maybe some might have lived, but even in the face of certain death on the ends of those long triangular bayonets, they didn’t.

Brave men.

There are several places that in my opinion, every American should visit (in no particular order)
Alamo
Gettysburg
Pearl Harbor
Normandy (and the cemeteries)
Little Big Horn.

Feel free to add...

Saratoga, where the mighty British Redcoats and their Hessian allies were humbled by a bunch regular Americans who had guns and knew how to use them. We didn’t just beat them, we captured their entire force, including one of their most famous Generals. Surprised the heck out of the Brits.

I got to see it a few times, once long ago. Very moving then especially. More of a shrine back then. One of Crockett's rifles was there. I was amazed at how slender and light it seemed. It's very crowded and commercial today but a lot more people are able to see it. The other famous missions are more realistic and original. The Alamo was already an abandoned ruin for 50 years by 1836.It never looked anything at all like it does today. In related history, Three Roads to the Alamo is a great book on the major heroes. Helps flesh out who and why these characters were there. Texas Monthly had an article The Yellow Rose of Texas about ?somebody Rose, a Jewish guy, who skipped out before the battle, supposedly the source of so much mysterious information on the last days no one survived to tell.

187 years since the Alamo fell on March 6th, 1836

And tomorrow will be 187 years since TX Declared Independence from Mexico.

Unfortunately due to Lying Hiden Biden’s Open Border and “Catch & Release” BULLSCHITT, it sure looks like Fuqking Mexico is winning again, with help from the Drug Cartel’s and the Traitorous DemoRat’s. 😡

Travis’ well-spoken slave Joe gave us our best immediate post-battle report when he accompanied Susanna Dickinson and her infant Angelina back to the Texian area after the Alamo. Joe, being part of Travis’ estate, was sent to the plantation of Travis’ probate Lawyer.

He escapes from there in company with a Mexican soldier, presumably to Mexico where escaped slaves could actually build a life such as it was.

Five months later he comes back. A short time after that he skips out again and goes EAST, 600 miles and shows up some time later at Travis’ brother’s plantation in Alabama. An impressive enough feat for a runaway slave, even more so as it is believed he himself had never been east of Memphis.

As far as is known Joe lived the rest of his life there. The last time he is reported was in 1877, in Austin, in company with Travis’ brother. Apparently no one thought to interview him.

I was wrong, Adina Emilia de Zavala saved the long barracks in 1908. To her we owe a debt of gratitude for her tireless efforts in the years leading up to her public stand; a crazy woman who made a difference.

For those who ain’t familiar, a major part of the action after the walls had been breached accrued to the long barracks, hand to hand fighting. I believe one account suggests Bowie had been moved during the siege to the hospital area on the second floor too.

Wealthy society dame Clara Driscoll also stepped up, but Adina could not prevent Driscoll, with the backing of the Govenor, from demolishing the second story of the long barracks to give the church a better look. Unless they have read into it, few visitors now realize the significance of them.

Scroll down to “Saving the Alamo” for a full account.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adina_Emilia_de_Zavala

For thirty years prior to that the long barracks had been used as the base of Hugo Shmeltzer’s big general store, still in place in this
1905 photo of the Rough Riders, once again illustrating how little was known about the battle at that time.

Forty years after the Alamo, 1870’s, when the State finally looked into there were two sources, Susanna Dickinson, who one gets the feeling told them what they wanted to hear (Crockett surrounded by a pile of dead bodies etc), and one William Zuber.

William Zuber was 16 years old at the time of the Alamo, lived 100 miles northeast in Grimes County and was detailed to guard the baggage train at San Jacinto.

From Zuber we get the story of Louis (AKA “Moses” at the Alamo due to his age) Rose. Moses Rose, a French veteran of the Napoleonic Wars, was apparently a real guy at the Alamo.

Today we have no clear idea exactly how many individuals entered or slipped out of the Alamo during the siege. We do know that the 32 men from Gonzales arrived a week into it, feeling honor-bound to face nearly certain death. We also know that Santa Anna at one point allowed the Tejanos to leave, some took him up on the offer, others elected to stay.

Zuber had it that after leaving the Alamo before the actual battle, Rose showed up at this parent’s place in very poor condition. From Zuber, allegedly from Rose, we get Travis’ line in the sand speech which Zuber allowed was his approximation of that speech.

Lines in the sand or other form of vote was apparently not an unusual method back then of getting a bunch of guys who weren’t subject to command to agree on a course of action, majority ruled. There quite likely was one or more such voted during the siege, if so, what exactly they were about is unknown

Around 1855



Around 1927



Current

It is impossible for me to stand in the chapel with dry eyes. The raw power in the walls is tangible.

As a kid Crockett and Bowie were my big heroes. Travis seemed more a dandy thanks to Walt Disney and John Wayne. He was perhaps the only loyal Texan of the three as the other two were adventurers or worse. The air is so cool in there, the echoes eerie. Not knowing the reality was an open ruin with nothing like a roof gives a false sense of the battle. The current chapel lends a religious inference to their heroic sacrifice. That seems appropriate, to finish the chapel as it supposedly was intended to look, making it a memorial shrine to their memory. People forget Spanish was the official language, Catholicism the state religion every immigrant had to covert to. Most defenders were Mexican citizens, not American. The crowds today and commercial attachments degrade the solemnity, unfortunately, but it's still powerful. And the river walk is nice! Girls fatter than 20 years ago....

More incredible than being there is to handle the actual Bowie knife that Davey Crockett owned. You can't imagine touching history like that and to think of the connection with Crockett, Bowie and the Alamo...