Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting 358 Cast Bullets and Doe Don't Mix

I shot a doe whitetail on Sunday morning with my 358 Winchester, Rem M-7, Douglas barreled rifle, loaded with 244 gr. flat nosed cast bullets. The bullet actually went lengthwise, stem to stern, thru the doe. I had often read about the stem to stern thing happening with cast bullets but have never done it myself. Of course I have only killed 3 or so deer with cast bullets and the others didn't permit a lengthwise pass-thru. The doe was about 135-150 yards away and ran about 75 feet after the shot and was near dead when I approached. I put a finisher in her head to end it quickly. It feels really rewarding to make your own bullets and use them for hunting. Getting cast bullets to group well can be very difficult and when it all comes together, it sure does make one feel GOOD !

Nice going. Would that be the Saeco 245gr #352? Gianni

I'll have to check tonight as I have forgotten but I will put the details out here tomorrow.

YEA! Lets hear some details! alloy used? Velocity? got a pic of the before and after boolit?

Blammer the bullets went all the way thru so I don't have any to recover. I make them from a Saeco mould #62352 and they weigh between 244.5 plus or minus .3 gr. They have a flat nose and are gas checked and I size them to .359 in my RCBS Lubrisizer. I heat treat these bullets at 450 for one hour and then quench in cold water. I doubt that they open up much but they group within about 1.5 to less than 2 inches at 100 yards for 3 shots. The bullets were loaded in Browning 308 cases full-length sized and then the neck is again sized for 358 using a Lyman M-die. I put a tuft of dacron in on top of each powder charge. The charge is 37 gr. of IMR 3031 and is ignited by Rem. 9 1/2 primers. I don't have a chrono so I only guess at the velocity at perhaps 2,000fps.
That's the details on the bullet. Regrding the rifle, I have a Rem. M-7, tupperware stock with a 358 Douglas barrel cut to 22 inches. It wears a Weaver Grand Slam 1.5x 5 variable scope that I am disappointed with the optics on but Weaver says it is up to snuff. I only has the center third of the view crisp, both outside thirds are wavey from poor optical quality. I keep the scope only because I don't want to spend the money to get a leupold 6x fixed power. Maybe this spring. Anybody want my Weaver ?

thanks! Looks like you do your homework! Good shooting!

I'm gonna try some cast in 30-06 next year hopefully. I know they work great from a 45-70.

I'm working on cast boolits with my 30-06 currently and have 3 of the more popular boolits to try.

311284, 311041, and 311466

I'll keep ya posted on how it goes.

Congratulations! I have the Lyman 358009 for my Whelen.
What alloy did you use?
whelennut

Wheelweights, heat treated at 450 for 1hr. and then quenched in water. Should be very hard.

I was reading over in the CBA forum (http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/)where C.E. "Ed" Harris was suggesting something like 8 pounds of pure lead with two pounds of wheelweights heated for about four hours and then water quenched. he then suggested putting them in the freezer for two weeks to hasten age hardening. He felt that made a great hunting bullet. I just might gamble a bit of my dwindling supply of wheel weights and pure lead and give 'em a try.
Right now I'm waiting for the weather to clear up a bit as it's windy as hell and a bit cooler than I like for load testing, but I have a series of loads to try in both the .358 Win. and .35 Whelen with Lyman #s 358315, 358318, RCBS #35-200-FN , 35-250-SP, Lyman #3589 (AKA358009) and a David Mos custom mold that duplicates the 3589 with a slight flat added to the nose to increase hitting power on game. This batch of bullet is cast from my normal alloy of ten pounds of wheelweights, one pound of lintoype, 36" piece of 95/5 percent lead free solder and 1/3 cup of magnum bird shot. This alloy will age harden to 14 BHN and when heat treated will age harden to 31/32 on the BHN scale.
It has worked quite well on deer in the untreated form from a 30-30 rifle at 2000 FPS.
My hope is to get the #3589 or it's D.Mos clone to about 2000 FPS minimum and hopefully somewhat faster in my .35 Whelen.
FWIW, the #358315 is a hollow point mold. All the molds mentioned cast excellent bullets. The RCBS and D. Mos bullest cast out at .360" and the Lymans .359" except for the .3589 which runs .362".
Rifles are a Ruger M77 in .358 Win. and .35 Whelen and another .358 based on a Mauser action. All three rifles have a 1 in 16" twist which should prove to be very interesting with the heavier bullets.
Paul B.

I shoot that 3589 in my 35 Whelen also. Haven't spilt any blood with it but you sure know it when it goes off--recoil is stiff.

wheel weights, plus 4%-5% pure tin added by weight, and casting at a temp so the bullets look slightly frosted, when recovered from the water,you use to catch them in, when having them fall into a 5 gallon bucket of cold water as you open the mould produces a decent and accurate slug without the need to heat treat in most cases, Ive used that formula for years with my 358,375,44,and 45 caliber rifles.
bullets will be quite hard and youll want a mould design having a wide melplat but they tend too rivet rather than fracture on game






http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/index.html

Thanks for the info 340mag. I was aware of heat treating by quenching in a bucket of water but honestly, I have two concerns. The first is that I didn't want water anywhere near my moulten lead for fear of a splash from a bullet being quenched finding its way into the moulten lead. Secondly, I have many imperfect bullets and like to look at them first before keeping them in my box to be weighed. If I discover a imperfect bullet, I use my gloved hand and quickly lower it back into my lead pot and cast it over again. I try to eliminate my culls that way and hopfully have a safer casting operation. I wiegh all my bullets that look good on the first inspection after casting before I decide to keep them or remelt.

I generally sort the bullets after I finish casting and throw the first dozen or so while the mould reaches a stabile temp dirrectly back into the pot, but once the moulds up to temp you should easily cast a couple hundered before you quit and the culls get thrown in a differant scrap melter where they get turned into INGOTS over a propane fire heating a large cast iron melt pot, all the moisture gets evaporated well before the lead actually melts and I only add INGOTS to the bullet melt durring production.
INGOTS are made by pouring a ladle full of moulten lead into cast STEEL muffin pans

I sit at my casting bench which is a high work bench next to open garage door with lots of ventilation in a high swivel chair I drop the mould contents into a 7 gallon bucket full of cold water with a towel in the bottom to cushion bullet falls its a good 6 feet away from the pot and I swivel between the casting pot and emptying the mould, Ive done that for 35 years and never go water near moulten lead

the lead INGOT melter I use is simply this pot

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44705

on this furnace
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...varTarget=search&cmCat=SearchResults

its also great for melting wheel weights


CASTING POT
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000152800067

I hear ya 340Mag. I don't use and don't want to use two heat sources during casting. Too much hassle for me. I also make ingots and use the aluminum muffin tins for those but at a seperate casting session. I cannot be convinced that a drop of water from your quenching can't find it's way around you or over your head into your melted lead of which you must have two pots to keep track of. I'll continue to make my ingots and quenching the way I do, but I have read of many others who quench while casting and also don't seem to have any problem.

It is kind of like playing Russian roulette to me. It only takes once and you would have melted lead all over your face and hands and even though for 35 years you haven't had a problem I'd like not to spend the remainder of my life with burn scars on my face on the one chance it might happen. I am not too purdy the way it is!

I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE MIS-UNDERSTOOD ONE PART OF THE PREVIOUS POST, I cast bullets useing the lyman melter and add ingots to keep it full and collect the scrap generated by cutting the sprues FOR MELTING into ingots at a LATER time, but yeah! Im constantly dropping semi hot bullets into the 7 gallon pail full of cold water and its not been the least bit of a problem, the bullets cool almost instantly as they swirl and slide thru the water to the bottom of the 7 gallon pail. the melters on one side the pail on the other and with practice the swivel chair and I work at a repetative cycle and theres never been the least problem, bullets falling into the water just don,t splash enought to get me wet let alone past me into the melter.
obviously if you prefer to do it a differant way, then , more power to you guy, we each have our own methods and each works at least half way decent or we would have found a differant way to do things