Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles The highly overrated 308 Win. - accuracy wise

The forum is slow these days, might as well kick the hornets nest.

I am working on loads for my 5th 308 Win. and was talking with a bud about it. We both kind of agreed it is overrated in terms of accuracy. I really like the chambering and think it is tied with the 270 Win for the best best NA hunting round for the average hunter. Not hard to get MOA groups, but I've never had a real smoker. For a tack driver, I'd bet on a 6.5 Creed any day.

if you're getting MOA and you're talking about hunting rifles, WTH is the problem with accuracy? Creedmore may be a tack driver, but I'll take a 308, 270, or 30-06 for hunting any day. Yep, you kicked the hornet's nest of the unrepentant old guy who despises Creedmores.

The Creedmoor has the advantage of better chamber/throat dimensions standardized by SAAMI. In particular, the SAAMI min spec throat diameter for the Creedmoor is a half thousandth over bullet diameter. The corresponding dimension for the 308 is two thousandths over bullet diameter.

All the homework has been done on the .308 for decades, regarding reamers, bullets, loads, rifle blueprints, etc. and that counts for a lot in some folks' eyes. Used to be that when a big name accuracy shop or tactical shop put up promotional pics of 10 round groups from their rifles, it was generally either going to be a .308 or a 6mmBR / 6mmPPC.

Any particular reason?

And it's a solid bet their 308 chamber reamer didn't have a .310"+ throat diameter.

Bet you are right....

I have owned a number of 308s over the years and moved on to other more "interesting" cartridges but I finally found my way out of the wilderness and back to the 308 almost by accident. I was building a rifle in 6mm CM and at the last moment, decided to buy a suppressor. With that in mind, the only 20" Proof pre-fit barrel available was in 308 so the decision was made, 308 it was going to be. After shooting the 308 again after being away for year, I'm convinced it's the most well balanced short action cartridge available, it does everything well with little fanfare. It has become my go-to hunting rifle and don't see that changing.

Holy smokes! Might as well take a picture of yourself whizzing in a box full of .222Rem brass while you're at it.

Love the 308 Winchester. Does everything I need!

No argument here. I, like you will shoot whatever I damn well please..

At least the OP didn't criticize the 30-06.

This is the right answer.

Cut a .308 Win with a .3085 diameter/.175 long/1 degree freebore in a good barrel and it will shoot to the limits of the shooter.

I have owned a bunch of 308's , a bunch of 270's , and a couple of 6.5 Creedmoor's , both the 270's and the Creedmoor's on average were more accurate than the 308's

I agree with you and the OP. I've had many 308's, some have even been frustrating, where my 30-06's best them. The last 2 308's I'm keeping are very good shooters though. I'll be hanging on to them for a while. A couple months ago, I did a side by side comparison between one of my 6.5 creedmoor's and my latest 308 winchester. Tit for tat, the creedmoor kicked its azz.. I actually had high hopes for the 308 that day!!

My custom Schultz and Larsen heavy barrel model 54 target 308 Win is likely just as accurate as any 6.5 C. It's more accurate than me. My best 5 shot groups at 100 yds are in the 0.3" which is basically a ragged hole. It's better groups are easily repeatable. My local range has a 300 yd berm, so for a shorter range target gun I'm not looking for more accuracy and don't need the advantage of. 264" over .308"

Another thing that makes my Schultz a better short ranger is the old school 1:14 twist. It loves 155gr and 168gr, but won't stabilize more than 180’s

I think I'll quit right here.

Again, I like the 308 and it's been my main hunting cartridge for years. 2 Factory Rem 700's, a Tikka, a CVA, and 1 custom with a Douglas with a 'match' chamber.... I've never had one that was a real tack driver. Seen a lot of factory rifles in 6.5 Creed not need custom work to outshoot about any 308 Win I have seen. Still believe its rep as to accuracy is a bit overstated.

You are like me. All of your rifles shoot good. "I'll quit right here".

Well, I can't stop right there. The most accurate 308win I've seen is one of my buddies. He's a member of the local SWAT. He asked if I'd shoot it, "to see what it could really do". Funny thing is it's an old Tikka that his dad gave him recently. "Dad never shot it, just stuck it in the closet about 10 or 15 years ago", according to my buddy. Anyway, a stainless T3 varmint.

5 shots on target:

I did not take that target home and try to measure it, since it was my buddies rifle. This is as it was stapled to the backer board. My buddy took a pic with his phone that has a ballistic app that measures groups. It said ".110" or something like that. I told him it was fos and probably closer to 1/4". Because of my buddies great shooting Tikka, I had to pull mine out and start messing with it:


Mine is also a T3, but a stainless lite. Not a damn thing wrong with these older T3's, after you replace the aluminum recoil lug and the bolt shroud. I also put this one in a new T3X stock, added a bolt stop from a 6.5 creedmoor and also run creedmoor mags, so I can get the bullets out close to the lands.

It's a great shooter:


Then my latest buy was a Winchester model 70 Heavy varmint model. Love the rifle and it was a damn good deal. I recently sold my AR10 308 target rifle, and found myself with almost 1,000 pcs of 308 win primed brass. Most primed with BR2's, so buying another 308 was the right thing to do.


Now, to be fair, after shooting a roughly 3/4" group at 400 yards with it,

I thought it was ready to take on the creedmoor, that is the backup to my competition rifle. Wind conditions sucked that day, so it was a great test. Not being partial to either one, to be fair, I set out to see which one prevailed as winner:


The 6.5 Creedmoor:

As you can see, both rifles were wearing identical scopes. None had an advantage in that department. That's why I left the competition rifle at home!!

Here are the results from 2 very similar rifles:

6.5 CM:


308 Win:


I have respect for the 308 win, but there's no denying how good the 6.5 creedmoor really is.

I had a Savage FP in 308 that with reloads would do .5" all day. Never should have sold it. Now have a Tikka Veil that will do whatever I need it to do as long as I do my part.

Outstanding groups, but I'm allergic to plastic

BSA, you never miss a good dick-measuring contest...

I have great accuracy with 30-06, 270, 308 and 7mm-08, some took longer to develop but with patient load development it can be done.

I can't say the .308 is over or underrated in regard to accuracy...nor can I do it for the 6.5 CM.

I can say I have a generic load for both of those that's shot well in every rifle I've put it through. Currently using the generic .308 load in 5 different rifles and the generic 6.5 CM load in 4 different rifles....and I've let more than a few go chambered in each that worked well in the past. Neither of those generic load were "worked up". They are the only two rounds I've had a generic load work out that well across so many different rifles.

I have several generic loads for the 308 that any healthy rifle ought to shoot well. I'm not claiming originality either, just good execution in assembly.

I think the real accomplishment, is 30 cal ballistics in a smaller shell. I can't make any fantastic claims for accuracy because I'm not a great shot. Even from the bench. But I've spent some hard labor packing my Dad's elk back to camp that he took with grandpa's circa 52' Win 70 Featherweight. Those excursions weren't boring :-)

Absolutely nothing wrong with a .308 in my book. I have one with a 95 Palma chamber and it's easily as accurate or more accurate than my 6.5s. For hunting in my area, I'll take a .308 any day. I still like the 6.5 Creedmoor....and the 6 Creedmoor.

Don’t reckon the issue is with the cartridge. The 308 will respond to as much load development you can tolerate. But, it don’t take much.

some of the most accurate rifles I have encountered were early 700ADLs in 308 WIN

My latest 5 shot group from my 308. Not my best shooting but ok.

I re-entered the 308 world a few years ago when I bought a Mauser M12. It is pretty accurate with the 168 gr ELDX and factory Federal 165 gr blue box that I used below.

Have a 308 I worked up a load for. Did a velocity test with about 8-10 rounds, picked one to try. Tried one powder, one charge, one bullet, one seating depth, got .4" @100. One and done.

Any guys on here actually serve their country in some foreign sht hole, and see first hand, the 7.62 feed flawlessly from machine guns?

Fk the creedmoor. Bench rest creations have little to do with what makes a great hunting cartridge.

Any gunwriter claiming the creedmoor is a better cartridge, should join the fkn Army or Marines, as the spoiled fk probably has too much time on his hands.......

A bit of CDS manifesting there.

Woah, wrestling memes?! Did we just become best friends? Much better use of time. Remember this fkn guy from the 80's:

I have three, both less than an inch groups with 150 Sierra GameKing bullets. It rates right up there with me. I guess I should throw them SOB’s away

Let me PM you an address of a disposal company that will take them .

Dear Macho Man Randy Savage,
The military has been using the 6.5 Crapmoor in sniper rifles.
I agree with you on the 7.62 rounds in machine guns. M240s are superb in the feeding department, and might be decidedly less so with a steeper shouldered round.
Signed,
Guy who sent a few rounds downrange with 7.62 chambered rifles and machine guns

All the 1/2" rifles won't win many if any benchrest shoots. Then again all the 1/4"- bench rest rifles in the world won't do you as well as a 308W w/200gr bullet facing a pissed off Grizzly! Pretty much any cartridge can kill a big game animal at 500yds if YOU can place the bullet right! Then again you can watch any animal run off at any distance if you miss, regardless what your shooting!

I wondered if/when someone might point out that fact concerning the Creedmoor.

There are no flies on either chambering as far as I'm concerned.

And we all know who the OG is anyway:

308 winchester, steroids, and cocaine.

oh yeah! Snap into a Slim Jim pukesters!
[video:youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/dQ6gxe7F52E?feature=share[/video]

Factory Rem 700 Varmint barrel,

10-shots at 100 yards, .65" center to center.



540 yards,

My 2008 Rem 700 SPS shoots just like that, 10 shots covered with a quarter at 100 yards. What’s not to like?

Factory Rem 700, thrown charges of IMR4064 and a 4x scope at 300 yards:





Factory Rem 700, thrown charges of IMR4895, 6x scope at 100 yards, 17 shots almost fit under a quarter:





Factory Rem 700, thrown charges of IMR4064, scope on 9x, three shots to verify elevation dialed for 300 yard zero:

All of you have overlooked one very important detail:

You know what they say about the guys who doth protest too much....and have softcore gay pics on their HD lol

Can the 3 not so great work with ass shots?

I am pleased this thread came up. I have never gotton the accuracy that many here post with the 308 and figured I must be doing something wrong. I have 3 pre 64 1 Remington 700 and one Winchester classic and one number 4 mk 1 converted from 303 to 308.
I have bought lapua brass Redding competition dies tried all the accuracy loads and have basically failed to reach the one inch mark consistently. usually 1 1/2 inch. .I am able to shoot well with my 3006, one inch or less, my 270, my 2506 and my 7mm08, the last two about5/8 of an inch. so I basically give-up or figured that the groups shrank as they hit the typewriter.

If you can't group 1" regularly with a 308 I don't believe it's the cartridge that's the problem. I didn't use a typewriter to shoot the groups i posted above.

+1

Have quite a few, and only my Win M100 carbine won't do it. Most have done it with minimal effort.

I wouldn't say 308 is overrated. It's proven to be quite accurate, and my personal use has show the same. But I will say it has been surpassed by 6.5 CM.

There are some M110-based 6.5 Creedmoor rifles in service. They've also be notably more finicky than the .308 Winchesters. I've even read some units sourced .260 Remington barrels because they were more reliable.

drop point, Please give an example of a ,260 barrel being more reliable than a 6.5 CM barrel?? Rio7

My tactical .308 is the most accurate rifle I ever owned. It's not my primary hunter because of its weight, but nothing i ever owned was/is more accurate. I fussed with it for months when I first bought it, to get below .250 with 3 and 5 shot groups. Several different brands of bullets, cases and powder finally all came together, and now consistent 100 yard groups under .250 are routine and 1.00 groups at 300 yards are common. My best load is the 168 grain CC, with 43.5 grains of RL-15 using WW, cases. Going to mess with some Lapua cases this summer just to see what happens. For coyotes I use a 150 grain soft nose as the CC's slide right through

I suspect it has to do with feeding, not the barrel per se.

The case taper and shoulder angle are the same as .308 Winchester, which the magazines and feed lips were designed for. As Mathman points out, it is feeding better. As for an example, it is literally what I posted; 6.5 Creedmoors have had some problems leading to some units adopting .260 Remington. I don't have any articles pointing to that, but was based on conversations I had read from people more in the know than I am.

'Nuff said.

308 winchester, and 308 based cartridges, cream of the crop!

The hilarious thing about the 308 'Chester is that is generally shoots better than well, despite violating several tenants of precision; it has an "old" shoulder angle, many rifles have lands you can't "chase" and fit the magazine length and has several decades of ammunition, brass and bullet design changes that all rear their heads when trying to make repetitive accuracy. But it still does.

It also eats about every known rifle powder speed without much fuss, and is wide ranging in that regard. It will generally make its nominal speeds with those powders as well.

I've owned more .308 Winchesters than any other chambering except maybe .223. Those rifles included a 760, M1A loaded model, 700 5r milspec, 700 Police, and a semi custom sporter wearing a Douglas barrel.

Each one of those rifles were/are capable of fine accuracy, and were very easy to load for. It's a wonderful cartridge and one I'll be shooting for many years to come.

A 308 has been my favorite centerfire caliber for years, it's accurate, doesn't eat burn out barrels like the over bored cartridges, and has plenty of power for anything I'll ever hunt.

My 100 does..and with factory ammo

My BAR loves the Norma 150gr ammo. Probably better try it in the M100 too.

I always considered the 308 a carbine cartridge. I finally bought a bull barreled 700 BDL and some match bullets. I don’t consider that 700 as a hunting rifle - paper shooter only. But my 600 Mohawk I do. I have no idea how many 308’s I’ve owned, most were 600 Mohawks or 660’s. But I’ve had 700’s, an AR in 308, a Mauser 98, Winchester 70, a Tikka, and a Ruger 77. The only ones I really liked were the 600’s.

I like the 30-06 much more than the 308 for a hunting rifle.

I never desired a 6.5 man bun. If I were to get a 6.5 it would be either a 264 or 6.5-06 or 6.5-06AI. But if a 6.5x55 in a Remington Classic we’re to come along…

My 308 Win rifles shoot OK.

About 12 years ago I found one on the used gun rack at the Cabelas in Sidney, NE. I had a buttload of points from their club card and cashed them in on the rifle. Really a sweet shooting thing. I have always wanted one in 7x57 but have not come across one.

I got some Horn 155 bthp and CFE 223 to try. The CFE with the Horn 150 flat base shot MOA, but nothing spectacular.

My identical Tikka T3 in 6.5 Creed is still besting its bigger brother. I still think the 308 is great as a hunting cartridge but a little overrated in terms of 'inherent' accuracy. The 270 Win has been more accurate in my experience too.

Wonder how many long range hits were made by sniper teams in combat that went between 500-800 meters with a 7.62x51. With today’s super match grade barrel accuracy and bullet technology it’s only gotten better. It’ll never overtake the 6.5 Creedmoor in very long range work, but for larger game (500-1,000+lbs) the 308 Win, IMO, hits harder with more authority and more blood loss from the muzzle out to 400 yards. Having almost 17% more frontal area and easily 40 gr - 60 gr more of bullet weight it provides tremendous power for hunting big animals, more so than the 6.5mm Creedmoor can provide with its lighter bullet weights and pencil size holes. I could care less about what’s happening out at 700 meters, but that’s just me. To each his own.

For the last couple of packaging changes I haven't found these to produce the groups several of my rifles are capable of with other bullets.

Yea, those flat base hornadys are just so-so.

They have been for me since they changed the ogive.

200 grain norma oryx, 46 grains leverevolution, 2600 fps. Exceeds the minimum bison legal requirements here in AK.

Decent little thumper for most Alaskan game, whereas the 6.5 douche-nozzle is worthless.

The 308 winchester is a real American:

Explain that to Charles Sheldon...

100% agree

You CLUELESS Drooling Fhuqktards are a hoot...you "lucky" kchunts. Hint. Congratulations?!?

"Frontal area",hits "harder" and "power" are Window Licking staples. Hint.

The boys issued a fhuqking 308,had zero "choices" and 'surprisingly" most of the "vaunted" heritage was Pre-LRF and a fhuqking guess at best. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.

Physics just "happens" to matter and the Transonic slip of a 308 is fhuqking HILARIOUS,compared to a 264 Kreed. Hint.

You Amazingly STUPID Fhuqks never disappoint,by simply doing your best. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

Have you ever killed anything, anything at all at long range?

SniffleKchunt,

Ain't it a fascinating CONSTANT,that you've never seen or shot ANY of it...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?








Cheer up...it were yet ANOTHER "slow" day. Hint.



Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................

No, but dammit he's ready. Lol. The virtual numbers are all set for the virtual hunting. Have to have high BC, long OAL, and low virtue for that game.

He only shoots steel plates at long distance. That's why "frontal area", "hits harder" and "power" make no difference to him. They still go "twang"! Even a .224.

Ladies,

It ain't my intent to diminish your Dumbfhuqktitude,nor your non-hetero correspondence...you "lucky" kchunts. Hint Congratulations?!?

I'm torn on my BEST 308 and they are wares you've never seen or could "afford". Hint.

Bless your heart(s) for Lying,Crying and Trying.

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.......

Dang stick might be harder on rifles than I am. That scope got the schit kicked out of it.

you might want to talk with some snipers that layed out in the country for hours on hours about their .308's ( that was nam)

Meters?
WTF man?🙃🙃

I have spent more than a few hours behind an M24 as well as an M110, as both were issued weapons. I have zero issues with the .308.






Here at home I hunt with a .308 more often than not and have found it to be a very accurate cartridge and have found no problems getting my rifles to shoot small groups. No flies on the 6.5CM either, and I have a couple of those as well, along with a .260, but I have killed a fair bit of elk and mule deer with the .308 and am quite familiar with it, so it is often the first thing I tend to grab.

The FN SPR A1,was the best over the counter 308 offering and their C/L spouts are hammers. Hint................

Despises them but hasn't shot one...

The 264 Kreedmire,simply connects mechanical dots related to Physics,which Droolers cain't savvy. Hint.

There's a WHOPPING .044" diameter "difference" betwixt it and a 308. That's 14 layers of Scotch Tape,which is "HUGE" and VERY "important" to Critters. Hint. LAUGHING!

The 264 Kreed',simply arranges meaningful start/impact velocities,with rather modest recoil and such things tend to treat their Owners well. Impact velocities arrive at higher levels,which promote projectile performance,atmospherics are fended capably and recoil is rather sedate,in relative extrapolation of the improved performance. Hint.

The 'Kreed's Supersonic Range greatly exceeds the 308 Win's,which is tough on Crying Karen Window Lickers. Hint.

Physics ain't "subjective". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..................

On top of that the SAAMI spec chamber for the 6.5 has a throat section much closer to bullet diameter than that for the 308, increasing the likelihood of an off the rack 6.5 being a good shooter.

Who cares if the "supersonic range" of the 308 is less than the Gaymoor's?

.308 is kinda like Stockholms syndrome for us former military dudes. That's about it. Not earth shattering anywhere, but yet remains.......

.308 is a cartridge that just gets the job done. Nothing fancy, just a great cartridge. Wouldn't give 50 cents for a 6.5 creed. Give me anything on a 308 win or 06 case, every time. You can thank the 06 and 308 your not speaking a foreign language and voting socialist communist or whatever they do. And thank you to those who used them in the name of liberty. But the 6.5 creed has better b.c., get the heck outta here lmao