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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,016
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,016 |
A bit of background. I have an old .22 Anschutz model 1400 which I bought second hand years ago for my son. (5 shot bolt action repeater, uses what they used to call the flobert action, a step down from the 54/64). This is a pretty accurate little 22. It hadn't been used for a while, and I had a suppressor with no home so I sent the rifle in to get threaded. It came back and on paper the groups were worse than I remembered that the rifle was capable of. I have used the gunsmith before and the crown looked fine but I figured it had to be the rifle or me. I was using Winchester subsonic hollow points, I've used these for years and they have always been great.
So I dragged out my Anschutz 1422 (Match 54). Groups were the same, so it was me! I got my son on the end of the rifle (he's a MUCH better shot than me) and the groups were the same from both rifles. We are talking 30+ mils (the conversion is about 25 mils to an inch for you imperial types) at 50 yards. So maybe it was the ammo?
Turns out that up until a couple of years ago Winchester ammo available in New Zealand was manufactured by Winchester Australia. This was the ammo that I had been using with good results over the years. Now it's made in the USA, so perhaps that was the issue?
Enquiring minds want to know so I rounded up four different types of Subsonic Hollow Point 22 LR. I had the Winchester (US made), CCI (US made), Eley (UK made) and RWS (German made). Unfortunately I couldn't find any of the old Winchester Australian made stuff. I also know that on the campfire you must have numbers or pictures else it didn't happen. So here are the results. These are 5 shot group averages at 50 yards using three Anschutz rifles, the 1400 and 1422 mentioned previously and a 1416 (Match 64 action). A total of fifty 5 shot groups. Remember that this is hollow point hunting ammo.
Winchester 31.56mm (1.24 inch) CCI 33.0mm (1.3 inch) Eley 26.8 mm (1.05 inch) RWS 20.5mm (.81 inch)
Before you all go "German rifles, German ammo, to be expected) my son did the same test using his heavy barrel Ruger American. He didn't actually measure the groups, but came to the same conclusion and promptly laid claim to all the RWS ammo that I had left.
As usual, YMMV.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,106
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,106 |
The good target ammo comes from Europe and Russia. I believe Federal quit making match ultra. Not sure what our Olympic shooters use.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,213
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,213 |
FED/REM/WIN is mostly plinking grade accurate, same/same for Aguila too.
When I warm up at the range, I shoot a couple of different bolt action .22 rifles with European ammo. My different rifles from Anschutz, Krico, Marlin, Remington, and Winchester generally make better groups with different brands and styles of ammo from Eley, Lapua, Norma, RWS, SK, etc. I keep around 30 different brands and styles of European ammo around so that I can shoot 2 or 3 5-round groups of each to see which makes the best groups in that particular rifle.
I got a great deal on a Tradewinds 311A, a house-brand Krico, awhile back. I think that the guy sold it for a low price because it doesn't shoot FED/REM/WIN ammo very well, but it shoots MOA of better with RWS Target Rifle.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,154 Likes: 13
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,154 Likes: 13 |
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8 |
I don't know guys. I think the rifle has a lot more to do with it than most ammo you find/test. I have a 10-22 right now that puts just about anything in the same hole. Same can be said for my Savage MK2 FVT target rifles, and you damn sure don't want me to pull out my 1949 model 52B. Rifle and shooter, then ammo. YMMV... Some rifles are finicky as F, and some shooters not nearly as good as they think they are. My rifles, as an example, have no issues putting Federal automatch into less than 3/4" for 10 shots at 50 yards. Even with irons.
Wondering if the OP was shooting 5 or 10 shot groups??? Inquiring mind thing.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,457 Likes: 2
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,457 Likes: 2 |
I’m a big advocate of seasoning your barrel with 15-25 rounds between ammo swaps before taking a group seriously.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8 |
I’m a big advocate of seasoning your barrel with 15-25 rounds between ammo swaps before taking a group seriously. I've seen some rifles respond very well to that. One such rifle that I remember very well was Sheister's model 52 Winchester. That rifle was very weird. Went from shooting 2" groups with an unseasoned barrel, down to 3/4". My rifles do not show that type of extreme. Some do, and definitely something to be aware of.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,154 Likes: 13
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,154 Likes: 13 |
All of my .22’s shoot European ammo much better than US production. Sample of 5 guns.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 8 |
All of my .22’s shoot European ammo much better than US production. Sample of 5 guns. The best shooting 22lr ammo I have was made by Federal in 1992:
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,813 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,813 Likes: 4 |
My experience mirrors those who depend on Euro-ammo for precision, but some U.S. varieties still do yeoman service in the field, in particular MMHPs, Stingers, and I suspect Velociters, though I’ve yet to whack anything with those. For certain MMs are good killers at a fair price, and Stingers punch above their weight, if you have a gun that shoots them well enough to hit, and generally exit a handgun fast enough to expand.
BTW, Sportsmans Guide has MMHPs on sale, limit 10.
Someday I’d like to try some high-end Lapua, but besides being spendy it seems to be rare.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 351
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 351 |
That is the best match ammo I personally have ever shot. Very consistent. As best as I recall the Soviets sued to get Federal to stop producing it. Long time ago and I have slept since so may not be correct, but it sure did shoot in my 40x
Elevation is math Windage is Voodoo
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,067
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,067 |
CCI SV is a favorite here. They’re HP mini mags for hunting. My limited, non-competitive use of other USA .22 rimfire leads me to agree with the “plinking” use. My experience for accuracy has been much better with SK, RWS, Lapua, Eley, etc… .
Lately a recent purchase of Norma TAC has been very good. Got the info for a real deal here. Other bulk buys of Norma never panned out.
Again though for general target shooting I like CCI SV and for hunting I typically use CCI 36g MiniMags. Fed Auto Match hasn’t been a winner in anything yet. Rem Golden bullets sometimes do well. Incredibly dirty though. Agula varieties have not impressed me. Suppose lots and firearms are a factor. Just my observations.
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