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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 |
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Joined: May 2014
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I suspect the shooter blamed the failure on the manufacture.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 942
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 942 |
WOW!!° I've seen a few loose and off face, but that looks like it had a tin cup of Bullseye under a 200 grain bullet, maybe be more than once. I'm curious if it loosened the solder joints as well. What a shame. Bfly
Be nice and work hard, you never have enough time or friends.
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Joined: Jan 2021
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New Member
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New Member
Joined: Jan 2021
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What a shame. Good advice not to “push” drillings.
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Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 125
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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I’d suspect “S” bullets were at play, maybe even milsurp loads.
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 |
I’d suspect “S” bullets were at play, maybe even milsurp loads. S bullets don't hurt J bore drillings. S bore loads in some drillings that were made as light as possible if fired a Lot will loosen them up. The S bore loads were hotter. That's where some trouble lies. Heym drillings are not my favorites by a long shot. Over half of the ones I've encountered were off face, especially the ones in 270 and 30-06. This gun shows a history of heavy loads. It's an 8X57JRS.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Joined: Apr 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Now that is enough to make a fella cry! hate to see needles damage to any gun.
the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,793 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,793 Likes: 7 |
Hate to see that when all he had to do was get a bigger rifle.
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,755
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
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Welcome to TN - patron state of shootin’ stuff
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,206 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,206 Likes: 26 |
Hate to see that when all he had to do was get a bigger rifle. And in general I have found "a bigger rifle" (or cartridge) makes less difference than many hunters believe....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Hate to see that when all he had to do was get a bigger rifle. And in general I have found "a bigger rifle" (or cartridge) makes less difference than many hunters believe.... I think the point he was trying to make is that a bigger, more powerful rifle with a stronger action would have been a more prudent and desirable option than pushing this rifle and blowing it up. He wasn't trying to get into a "general" debate. Just my take.
"You cannot invade mainland America. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass" ~Admiral Yamamoto~
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. ~Thomas Jefferson~
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,206 Likes: 26 |
Okay. Thanks for your take.
My point (whether it is "the point" or not) is there's a pervasive belief among many hunters who handload that another 100 fps makes huge difference in "killing power"--which is probably why he pushed his drilling too much. What other reason would he have?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jul 2022
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 26 |
I have owned seven combo guns since 1974, currently own three, all in minty condition. Two are chambered in 7x65r. a Sauer drilling, 16 ga. tubes, Swaro 1.5x4 in claws and a Heym O/U, also 16 ga, Martin Hagn installed another small Swaro for me last year and a gorgeous Gebruder-Merkel, 16-8x57jrs.
This is a "dream gun" for me, wanted one like this gif 60+ years and finally found it.
These are fine guns for "meat" hunting here in BC and I am getting ready for the season already........
Last edited by Otto1217; 05/28/23.
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Campfire Member
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My father in law hunted moose in northern Ontario with a Savage 340 in 30-30. They ate moose meat. Why push a rifle/cartridge beyond its design tolerances?
Nick
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,197 Likes: 6 |
Of course, if the receiver had been made of a suitable material, it may have been fine. Other than say-so, I have not seen evidence that the gun was loaded hot. Only the failure of a weak gun. H&R's don't fail at the hinge. GD
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2021
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H&Rs also aren’t chambered for 50K psi rifle cartridges like the 8x57.
That was clearly a case of an overcharge, not an issue with the frame material.
The Germans proof each and every one of their guns to a higher overcharge than British guns. That’s why they are typically heavier in construction.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,206 Likes: 26 |
H&Rs also aren’t chambered for 50K psi rifle cartridges like the 8x57.
That was clearly a case of an overcharge, not an issue with the frame material.
The Germans proof each and every one of their guns to a higher overcharge than British guns. That’s why they are typically heavier in construction. This.... German guns, even old ones, will usually hold up fine to abuse from ignorant North Americans. A good example is a "no-name" combination gun my wife Eileen purchased at a local gun show around 20 years ago. The seller (who was running the gun show, as he does many others in the state) had a tag on it stating the rifle chambering was 9.3x72R, a straight-case cartridge, which was originally a black powder round about like the .38-55 in power--but which was popular enough to make the transition to smokeless. It came came a box of RWS 9.3x72R ammo, about half of which had been fired in the gun, and was light, beautifully engraved gun in very good condition. The marks under the barrels indicated the gun had been proofed for smokeless ammo, and Eileen talked him down to almost half the price on the tag. I knew there might small problems handloading for it, but felt pretty confident it could be done, partly because Norma still made 9.3x72R brass, and once home I did some measuring of the bores and the 16-gauge shotgun chamber. It turned out the rifle barrel was NOT chambered for the 9.3x72R, but the 9x72R--an almost identical case which fired 9mm bullets, considerably smaller in diameter than 9.3mm bullets, which usually measure around .366 in diameter. The bore and grooves on Eileen's rifle were just about exactly .35 caliber--which made handloading for the gun considerably easier. I ended up loading the 180-grain Speer flat-nose Hot-Cor, designed primarily for the .35 Remington at about 1900 fps, which has knocked the snot out of the deer she's killed. Anyway, this gun is probably at least a century old, but had around 10 factory rounds with .366 bullets fired through it with zero damage....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Mule Deer; Good morning to you sir, I hope you and Eileen are well on this Memorial Day Monday. Thanks for that experience with Eileen's drilling rifle, I remember now reading about it before, but it made me wince just a little bit this time - again. Other than seeing the odd drilling at the local gun show, we just don't run across them up here so it's all a foreign thing to me, in all senses of that definition. Way back in the '80's we ran into a German chap a couple times who had I want to say a Zoli combination rifle - likely either a 6.5x57R or 7x57R with a 16 gauge under it - again if memory serves from 35 years back and so help me it might not. One time I ran across a fellow with a Cape Gun which was .577/450 on the left side and 12 gauge on the right. I want to say that was a Belgian made one and quite old, but again that's a long time ago. Anyways John, yet again I appreciate you and the rest here adding to my education by sharing your knowledge and direct experience with stuff I've never messed with. All the best to you both. Dwayne
The most important stuff in life isn't "stuff"
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Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 26
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 26 |
Dwayne, etc.-there are FAR more of these guns here in BC, than most realise, they do NOT, however, hit the gunshows as there are better ways of selling/trading and so forth good guns than the typical BC gunshow.
I bought my Sauer mint drilling from Elmwood Epps site in late 2920 and both my fine "bockbuschflinten" from Reliable Gun, in Vancouver, again from their site and at VERY good prices, in 2002 and early 2003. The Gebruider Merkel, rates as perhaps the finest of the 200+ guns I have bought since my first Cooey, in 1964.
They, are out there, one simply has to know the guns and have the financial wehertrewithal.........
That 12.577 Cape Rifle. was probably British, as Alan Lever, used to stock a lot of that old stuff which he imported from the UK, for years.
Last edited by Otto1217; 05/29/23.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,206 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,206 Likes: 26 |
Dwayne, Thanks for your comments! Mule Deer; Good morning to you sir, I hope you and Eileen are well on this Memorial Day Monday. Thanks for that experience with Eileen's drilling rifle, I remember now reading about it before, but it made me wince just a little bit this time - again. Other than seeing the odd drilling at the local gun show, we just don't run across them up here so it's all a foreign thing to me, in all senses of that definition. Way back in the '80's we ran into a German chap a couple times who had I want to say a Zoli combination rifle - likely either a 6.5x57R or 7x57R with a 16 gauge under it - again if memory serves from 35 years back and so help me it might not. One time I ran across a fellow with a Cape Gun which was .577/450 on the left side and 12 gauge on the right. I want to say that was a Belgian made one and quite old, but again that's a long time ago. Anyways John, yet again I appreciate you and the rest here adding to my education by sharing your knowledge and direct experience with stuff I've never messed with. All the best to you both. Dwayne Thanks for your comments! However, Eileen's gun is not a drilling, but an O/U combination gun. Here's a photo of the first deer she took with it: Our friend Bruce (luv2safari) handled it in person a few years ago during a visit, and really wants it. (However, he wants to buy just about every good combo gun he sees, and Eileen doesn't want to sell it....) With the 1.5-5x20 Leupold it weighs exactly seven pounds--and six with the scope detached. She's used it with the scope off to take a number of upland birds. Good hunting, John
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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