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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,200 Likes: 23
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,200 Likes: 23 |
It’s a pain in the ass, if reloading isn’t an option and feeding other quality ammo in a quality barrel isn’t getting you the results you need, you can tamper with barrel harmonics by doing a couple things. 1. Do NOT excessively torque your muzzle device. This makes the barrel stretch when the barrel is heated after a few rounds and will scatter groups. 2.You can tune your muzzle device. Shoot a group and rotate it shoot another group. Record best group and use a high temp loctite and some clocking washers to set it in place. 3 this is the most tedious tip but can and will change harmonics. Originally torque your barrel but to 40 ft pounds, shoot a 5 shot group and let the barre cool. Tighten the barrel but 5 foot pounds and group again and cool. You’re groups will shrink and eventually get larger. Return barrel but torque to the best grouping. Good luck! Good advice. Thanks for adding to the thread. Welcome to the fire too..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,933 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,933 Likes: 5 |
Well number one improvement for me was adding a good trigger. Mb
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 Likes: 3 |
Learning a lot reading this thread as I'm pretty new to the AR thing... looking at building an AR one of these days for casual range (probably no competition at the moment) use and coyotes and accuracy is pretty important to me on any rifle I own. Seems like the dogs in our area like to hang up way out there sometimes and a long shot becomes necessary so I'm all about an accurate rifle. The close in dogs sometimes come by like a drive by gangster and catch you by surprise and a quick follow up shot is the one thing the AR platform gives me.
Also, I have this thing about wanting to do an 80% lower just for the project, but won't if it will hamper my search for accuracy.
So, a couple questions to start with- since parts are seemingly impossible to find any more where are you guys finding your parts and pieces? Lowers, BCGs, uppers, barrels, all seem to be in extremely short supply at the moment everywhere so shopping and trying to glean info has been interesting, to say the least. In all this reading I had a question that I'm curious about- does the chamber you specify with your barrel make a huge difference? What is the best chamber to order- .223, 5.56, or Wylde? I was also thinking a 18 or 20" barrel for this rig, but I'm wondering if that is really necessary for my uses and might add more front end weight than I'm looking for.
Point me in the right direction so I don't spend my kids' inheritance and don't end up with a bunch of useless parts that shoot like a shotgun....
Bob
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10 |
Learning a lot reading this thread as I'm pretty new to the AR thing... looking at building an AR one of these days for casual range (probably no competition at the moment) use and coyotes and accuracy is pretty important to me on any rifle I own. Seems like the dogs in our area like to hang up way out there sometimes and a long shot becomes necessary so I'm all about an accurate rifle. The close in dogs sometimes come by like a drive by gangster and catch you by surprise and a quick follow up shot is the one thing the AR platform gives me.
Also, I have this thing about wanting to do an 80% lower just for the project, but won't if it will hamper my search for accuracy.
So, a couple questions to start with- since parts are seemingly impossible to find any more where are you guys finding your parts and pieces? Lowers, BCGs, uppers, barrels, all seem to be in extremely short supply at the moment everywhere so shopping and trying to glean info has been interesting, to say the least. In all this reading I had a question that I'm curious about- does the chamber you specify with your barrel make a huge difference? What is the best chamber to order- .223, 5.56, or Wylde? I was also thinking a 18 or 20" barrel for this rig, but I'm wondering if that is really necessary for my uses and might add more front end weight than I'm looking for.
Point me in the right direction so I don't spend my kids' inheritance and don't end up with a bunch of useless parts that shoot like a shotgun....
Bob I Wouldn't Fhuqking Linger RINKHint.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 Likes: 3 |
Another question- does a kit like the one linked have to ship to an FFL?
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,625 Likes: 10 |
Nope.
Only the lower is Registered and the kit ships with EVERYTHING,except the stripped lower,so it's like ordering a fishing reel.
80% away.
Hint.................(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,282
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,282 |
Another question- does a kit like the one linked have to ship to an FFL? No, only thing that has to ship to a FFL is the stripped lower that is not included in that kit.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,659 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,659 Likes: 1 |
A no-brainer....................especially in the current climate. It'll do it all & then some. Br sure to check GB alignment & tightness, just sayin'. MM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,354 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,354 Likes: 10 |
A no-brainer....................especially in the current climate. It'll do it all & then some. Br sure to check GB alignment & tightness, just sayin'. MM Agreed. Darn good rifles. Never had a problem. I’ve got two and they’ve both been hammers.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,665 Likes: 8
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,665 Likes: 8 |
TAG….till I can get back and read the rest. Good stuff for a new-to-AR guy.
“When Tyranny becomes Law, Rebellion becomes Duty”
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,804 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,804 Likes: 1 |
None of mine are as accurate as some posted, because I no longer have the abilities some here do.
My tips
Aero M4E1 matched receiver set Armory Dynamics Stainless Spring Loaded Receiver Tension Screw H3 or heavier buffer, heavier comes from Slash at Heavy Buffers Springco Red spring to start, work my way down and order the heaviest spring that allows for function and correct ejection timing Faxon Lightweight or Toolcraft Nickel Boron BCG Aero 15" S-One or R-One Handguard Premium barrel with fast twists VG6 Epsilon Muzzle Brake Longest gas system available for barrel being used CMC 2.5lb 3Gun trigger
The Aero lower has a tension screw, I replace it with the Armory Dynamics Stainless Spring Loaded Receiver Tension Screw, clean degrease, bed the barrel to the action with Loctite 620, then torque to 35ft lbs, once that has cured I will final torque to 50ft lbs. I seal the gas block with Loctite 620, I don't use a suppressor, so I use Loctite 635 to mount the Muzzle Brake
NRA Endowed Patron Life Benefactor GOA Life Member TSRA Life Member NSCA Life Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,507
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,507 |
You can observe wear marks but mostly it's something I look at after all else is done.
I have tightened groups by simply swapping bolts, I figure it's a tolerance stacking issue. I do run a field gauge before shooting. Headspace is often overlooked. MSTN, know for producing some top quality AR's, matches the bolt to the extension, to achieve proper headspace.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 152,105 Likes: 33
Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 152,105 Likes: 33 |
Buy a good one to start with, got two Rock Rivers that will do 1/2” groups with 62 grain Barnes
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,200 Likes: 23
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,200 Likes: 23 |
You can observe wear marks but mostly it's something I look at after all else is done.
I have tightened groups by simply swapping bolts, I figure it's a tolerance stacking issue. I do run a field gauge before shooting. Headspace is often overlooked. MSTN, know for producing some top quality AR's, matches the bolt to the extension, to achieve proper headspace. Buy a good one to start with, got two Rock Rivers that will do 1/2” groups with 62 grain Barnes Good advice there. I also like buying good barrels that come with matching bolts. Always check headspace. If I have a good shooting AR with matched bolt and I upgrade the BCG, I'll usually keep the bolt and put that in the new carrier. Good advice about buying from well known sources with a good reputation for accuracy. I'm not suggesting RRA, as I have sone buddies that have them and none of them shoot as well as I think they should. Keeping in mind, this is 10 shot groups, not 3 shot groups. Funny things happen when you have a rifle that is out of tolerance by just a little bit. Like TWR mentioned: stacking tolerances can lead to problems, especially when firing more shots per group downrange. A funny story I need to bring up: I bought a good upper from a buddy last year and it was shooting great. I believe I started a thread on it because I was so impressed with the accuracy I was getting out of it: That sob was shooting lights out when I got it, but I didn't want the A2 front sight on it and wanted to just have that barrel on one of my rifles. I stripped everything, and when I pulled the bird cage off, I noticed about 1/8" of carbon build up on the muzzle. Well, my OCD would not allow that!!! I removed the carbon and after that, it has not shot the same since!!! I should have left that damn thing alone because it was a tack driving sob. My friend puts together great AR's. He's a retired Airborne Ranger, so he has all the time in the world to work on guns. Anyway, after putting the barrel on one of my ar's, this is how it looked: Now it has a freefloated handguard and nice clean crown and it does not shoot as well as it did in the non freefloated magpul handguard and the A2 front sight out front. It still shoots well, but not sub 1" at 400 yards: Just sharing an experience of how I somehow went backwards, and I'm thinking it's my knucklehead move removing the 30 years worth of carbon buildup on the crown and how accuracy degraded. I may be wrong?
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,677
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,677 |
Old timer's down here had a saying: "Don't fix what ain't broken."
I'd have cleaned it off too, though.
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad." ---------------------------------------------- "Jimmy, some of it's magic, Some of it's tragic, But I had a good life all the way." (Jimmy Buffett)
SotG
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,509
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,509 |
You can observe wear marks but mostly it's something I look at after all else is done.
I have tightened groups by simply swapping bolts, I figure it's a tolerance stacking issue. I do run a field gauge before shooting. Headspace is often overlooked. MSTN, know for producing some top quality AR's, matches the bolt to the extension, to achieve proper headspace. Buy a good one to start with, got two Rock Rivers that will do 1/2” groups with 62 grain Barnes Good advice there. I also like buying good barrels that come with matching bolts. Always check headspace. If I have a good shooting AR with matched bolt and I upgrade the BCG, I'll usually keep the bolt and put that in the new carrier. Good advice about buying from well known sources with a good reputation for accuracy. I'm not suggesting RRA, as I have sone buddies that have them and none of them shoot as well as I think they should. Keeping in mind, this is 10 shot groups, not 3 shot groups. Funny things happen when you have a rifle that is out of tolerance by just a little bit. Like TWR mentioned: stacking tolerances can lead to problems, especially when firing more shots per group downrange. A funny story I need to bring up: I bought a good upper from a buddy last year and it was shooting great. I believe I started a thread on it because I was so impressed with the accuracy I was getting out of it: That sob was shooting lights out when I got it, but I didn't want the A2 front sight on it and wanted to just have that barrel on one of my rifles. I stripped everything, and when I pulled the bird cage off, I noticed about 1/8" of carbon build up on the muzzle. Well, my OCD would not allow that!!! I removed the carbon and after that, it has not shot the same since!!! I should have left that damn thing alone because it was a tack driving sob. My friend puts together great AR's. He's a retired Airborne Ranger, so he has all the time in the world to work on guns. Anyway, after putting the barrel on one of my ar's, this is how it looked: Now it has a freefloated handguard and nice clean crown and it does not shoot as well as it did in the non freefloated magpul handguard and the A2 front sight out front. It still shoots well, but not sub 1" at 400 yards: Just sharing an experience of how I somehow went backwards, and I'm thinking it's my knucklehead move removing the 30 years worth of carbon buildup on the crown and how accuracy degraded. I may be wrong? Spin the birdcage off and put a thread protector on it and see how it shoots.
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,494 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,494 Likes: 4 |
Not the vastly experienced AR guy here but I have made a couple shoot. Only owned probably 30 different AR's. There is a lot to who is doing the shooting. I like A2 stocks,Geisselle and RRA 2 stage triggers. I have noticed that ammo tuned for the individual rifle means a lot. I like to size my cases as close in headspace as possible with reliability, .001-.002 at most. If a barrel doesn't shoot like you want get a different barrel! I like the Accuwedge because it makes the rifle feel more solid, not sure if it improves accuracy though. This said I have been lucky at getting accurate AR's in different calibers for sure.
Dog I rescued in January
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,237
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,237 |
I don’t have as much experience as a lot here with ARs, but I’ve saw some really cheap builds shoot amazing.
FF tube, good barrel, good optic/mounts, good barrel and trigger should get you there.
I’ve seen the cheapest Anderson rifles, with a new quality barrel and trigger put out some killer accuracy.
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