Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Sgt York, J Cooper and 45 ball?

Cooper made up most of his stats. History has shown that 45 FMJ gets the job done quickly with one shot about 2/3 of the time. Since most of us will NEVER have to actually shoot someone, and only a handful may have to do so once or twice in their life the odds are pretty good FMJ will get the job done. FWIW I have no doubts that York did exactly as described. But modern HP loads in any of the common handgun cartridges have shown to work somewhere between 85%-90% of the time. Given a choice I'll play the odds.

I’m sure 230gr FMJ would work. I’ve been carrying Speer GD 200gr +P.

What proof do you have of this?

IF your HPs don't expand, they will still work like a FMJ.

Yeah, but if you could hit the sternum (breast bone) of a human target with a 230G FMJ it might splinter that bone, the main purpose of which is to protect the heart. It is also connected to the rib cage and clavicle so would probably cause shock. Then again might just drill right through and not be an immediate stopper. Big word is if.

A JHP OR SWC HP might be more effective. Might, hope I never have to actually find out. I have shot a lot of deer through the lungs and some heart shots with expanding rifle bullets and only a couple of times have they dropped on the spot. Usually it's a short dash averaging about 25 yards. They seem to run farther when heart shot...might not get much blood trail from a 45 fmj

MAGA.

A FAT fmj….😁

True but, a lot of the JHP are better than the older ones were. They seem to expand better these days.

You get hit in the torso with a 45, ball or hp, you having a bad day. I carry both and don't give it much thought.

I keep a 1911 as a bedside gun but am not impressed with its killing power. I shot a javalina and 2 antelope with the 45 ACP cartridge with little traumatic effect. Elmer Keith tells of shooting jackrabbits with 230 grain ball and watching them run for great distances before piling up. A cop friend shot himself through the kneecap with a 45 one night and had to walk back to the squad car and pull up his pants to confirm he had actually shot himself. A Marine Raider armed with a Reising shot a Japanese soldier in the face from feet away and the Jap just stood there, stunned. The Reising jammed and the Marine had to wrestle the Japs rifle away from him and use his bayonet to finish him off. Then there is the officer that had to shoot a suspect 17 times, 3 in the head, to stop a fight using a 45 ACP. Then there are the success stories and there are as many as there are failure stories. Pick your poison.

I love the .45ACP. The couple trapped pigs I’ve shot with it died right now (granted, one was a head shot, the other was dead through both shoulders. Both with H&G 68’s heat treated and loaded to 950fps.

That factory FMJ beer can ammo (or .gov bid spec ammo) can give lackluster performance ain’t a shock.

I clocked some Winchester 158LRN .38 Special ammo a while back that chrono’ed a whopping 620fps out of my 4” mod.15. I’d not be surprised if white box Winchester .45 ammo was equally unimpressive.

RN FMJ’s aren’t designed to expand, but yet don’t really penetrate that well either (brother in law shot a doe below the eye close up with a .40fmj, it didn’t exit). Given the low launch velocity, I’ve never been a big fan of HP’s either. Big cast RNFP’s or SWC’s for me. Bullets matter…..(wait for it😀)…..more than headstamps.

I chronoed some of the cheap Tula .45 ACP 230 FMJ at 21 feet. They only averaged around 790 fps. It's good shooting ammo but, slow. Most 230 gr FMJ is closer to about 830 or a little more. I've loaded to 850 fps and it's a normal pressure load.

What's good about it? Round noses just poke small holes. Are you comparing to a sharp stick? Better to go with a 9mm JHP.

The resident anti gunner.
Lol

I like the 230 grain Golden Saber, myself. Fortunately, I have a reasonable supply that I managed to get before Remington hit the skids, though I believe it is available again (more or less).

I shoot only 147gr HP +P+ in my nines. I put two quick rounds in a 300lb plus boar from 12 yards and he never flinched, just trotted off.

I don’t carry a nine outdoors no mo.

Lots of stories about bullet performance.

IF York actually killed 6 Germans with his 1911 he did it with mil issue 230 grain ball...this would prove that this bullet is superior as a man stopper, no? Would he have done the same with modern JHPs? Where were the hits? Did they all just fall over dead like the movies?

Don't know how much this story was embellished but stuff never loses imagination in the retelling. Not to denigrate a great American hero as his exploits would have earned him the Medal of Honor without the killing of 6 Germans with his 45.

OK, lets say you are being attacked by six thugs, all are armed and you have a 1911 with at most 8 230 fmj rounds in the mag. You kill all six!


Is there evidence of six kills using JHPs of any caliber? Probably is but I haven't heard it. But there is always what Jack OConnor called "the hot stove set" so who to believe?

MAGA!

LSWC / RNFP / TCFP > JHP > ball

There is not replacement for displacement...

Through the kneecap?!