Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Tell me about 42's

I haven't owned a 42 before but bought one on the church auction yesterday. '59, all original, 26" PB and full choke. What do I need to know about them?

Bk they are just a 25 to 30 yd gun and the ammo is damned expensive.
Mb

Maybe so, MB, but they are way cool little shotguns. I still regret letting go of the one I had. You are truly blessed to find one at a church auction!

I inherited one many years ago and have put about ten rounds through it, if that many. But they look neat. Mine is from the late '40s.

The Model 42 is the only gun I have used that justifies the existence of the .410. Nothing quite like it. Use and enjoy.

My last pheasant fell to a Model 42 and I will remember that point and shot as long as I live.

The one I have was my dad's gun. The last time I hunted dove with him many years ago, he used the 42 and actually killed dove. I doubt I could hit the ceiling in my office using a .410.

1949 CYL bore

What GF1 said. Me, I have eleven just now. Get a loader. Suck it up and buy a couple flats of AAHS shells. The HS hull is the best, figure on about 10 reloads per hull. The loads you crank out will be considerably less expensive than the naysayer's 12s and 20s.

I love to set targets for .410 5-stand and shoots locally. That "full" barrel will break 35 yd incomers and dropping battues. I usually figure on other stuff max break points of 25-30 yds. Rabbits to about 20 yds. You will completely outclass 12, 20, 28 ga shooters in coolness. The first time you vaporize a 35 yd incomer your big gun squadmates will pause, stand in awe. Nothing is more cool than a 42. Nothing.

Congratulations BK! I don’t think you will be disappointed with (or regret) owning it! I’ve handle and admired many and they exude elegant lines and smooth mechanics in my opinion.


I’ve been interested in finding “the right” 42 for years. Mainly for partridge on the wing (behind dogs) at ranges of about 5-15 yards. Im primarily interested in a 26” barrel in either modified or full choke.

My question to anyone who has used their 42 for similar shooting, and hopefully has experience with more than one flavor of barrel length vs. choke:
What is the expected pattern performance difference between a 26” modified vs. a 26” full choked variation?

Maybe Sam_H will have this insight?

Thanks

Used 42s for grouse and woodcock for many years. Always took a "mod" stamped 26" plain barrel 42 out several days in October. Not the thing for late season grouse in Maine (runs to 12/31) when shots can be very long.

A 42 is no handicap whatsoever on woodcock. I've taken them dropping 30-35 yds out. Best 3" domestic shell is Remington, #7.5s.

Just about everyone who uses a .410 for grouse or preserve phez discovers 25 yds is about the outside for clean kills. Which means you will pass up some shots. Matters to some.

Most useful field choke is "mod" or "skeet". Examples I've measured fall within the same constriction range. Ditto Remington 870s. 42 skeet guns are generally more expensive, you can sometimes find a prewar field grade stamped "skeet" - catalog designation 4209. But that won't be inexpensive either. I'd look for a 26" "mod" stamped gun. They generally bring $100-$150 more than "full" equivalents.

"Full" stamped 42 are less desirable for field use. Least constriction among mine is 14 thou....which is alot. OK for NSCA subgauge, but not what I'd use in the Maine woods.

had a clean up 42 skeet gun vr. fun, but I let it go. well built of course, but it was like shooting a toy.
we'd be interested to know how much you paid for it because most people who buy them, buy low and flip high....since they are 'money in the bank' guns.

I killed my first bird-on-the-wing, a mourning dove, with my dad's 42, nearly 50 years ago, and it seems like yesterday. I didn't realize how difficult that can be to do. My father had bought it to shoot dove, and was often frustrated with his hitting ability.

By the next year I had transitioned to grandad's 16ga FN Browning, which I found even more success with. My dad went back to his M12 12ga. when he wanted to race me to a limit.

I don't own any of those guns today, but of the bunch I hold the most nostalgia for the 42. I should have kept it, tho I likely wouldn't have shot it much.

The church auction was/is on gun broker through lock, stock and barrel. A guy left about 200 guns with instructions to sell them on a nationwide internet auction, all the proceeds to the church. So easy for me to justify. I had handled the gun when they were picked up, its in excellent original condition. $1950

My father in law, gone almost 25 years now and not a gun guy or a hunter told me once that he wished he'd bought "a model 12 in .410"

I'm sure I'll find some pheasants to shoot with it this fall. Looking forward to it very much.

You will love it!
No gun feels like or points like a 42!

I have a 1959 M42 that 26" full choke that Simmons installed a rib and upgraded wood before I owned it. What a dandy little shotgun! I hunt it about one day per year on grouse with Remington Express 3" #6 ammo. Shoot a few rounds of skeet with 2-1/2" AAHS hull #9 reloads every so often. I agree that it is a 25 -30 yard gun on clay targets depending on how much face you see of the target. My one attempt at trap wasn't pretty but I am not a quick shooter either.

Not the M42, but shot a limit of SD opening day wild pheasants with my Huglu/CZ tiny Generation 1 Bobwhite (26" IC and Mod barrels) about 17 years ago. Same Remington 3" Express #6 mentioned above. Had a great Vizsla at the time and only shot at a rooster if I could see it's red head and white ring and it was within 20 yards. Killed 3 with the 3 shots I fired. Also a few grouse with it over the years...all pointed and flying.

Sam_H,

Thanks for the feedback. I hunt mostly northern NH in dense spruce so the shots are frequently CLOSE. It sounds like the 26” Modified is the right choice. Now to break down and buy one.

BKinSD:
It sounds like you found a gun you can be happy with, for money that will go to a hood cause. Congrats!

This turned out to be a great post! Thanks everyone. I had planned to shoot Winchester shells through it, are they any good? I don't shoot many green shells

shoot brass base hulls. itll work best.

a lot of people forget that that gun was designed, built, and became obsolete around paper hulls. be nice to it. give it gourmet ammo.

Choke is a long standing joke in a 410.I break clay's just as hard with cyl as mod or full in my 42's.Less deformation.

Makes me laugh but I'm totally taking this gun to the trap range some night

42 skeet with Super-X 7.5's,12 yards.

Winchester AAHS is the best hull for reloading. Couple flats factory ammo gets you 500 empties. Figure 10 reloads per hull. That will match up with a 5k sleeve of primers, a 5k case of wads, about 12# of Winchester 296 (same as H-110), and just over 6 bags of Magnum #9 shot.

The Remington hull is less desirable for reloading, tho as a factory load the STS is probably the best.

Have used and patterned .410 constrictions from cyl to full (0.000" to 0.020"). Even with #9 pellets H5 and L3 skeet presentations get iffy with cyl. The canard about .410 constrictions not mattering lives on but is demonstrably false. A fringed "full" pattern can give you the same quality break as a centered "cyl". But the pattern board does not lie with apples to apples comparisons. Most top tier NSSA shooters use about 5-10 thou constriction, sometimes more, with best quality ammunition. The NSCA game sometimes gives us 35-40 yd targets. One of my M class buddies uses as much as 18 thou and is good enough to make use of it.

guys bring 410's to my trap range and will get around 7 or 8.
they do MUCH better on skeet.

My 42 was the Browning reproduction clone. The previous owner sent it to Briley for tubes. I used the modified in the field and the skeet for skeet. The best average I could build with it on skeet was 82/100. Took it along on a work trip over to Pierre one time on the way back I called Willow Crk to see if they would open for us. Met Bob Stoeser's wife at the club house.my bud used his red label and I used mine.i broke a 34/50 and made the comment that I might as well used my 410. That got a laugh from Bob's wife and the time I was shooting skeet league every week with it. I looked at my buddy and said we got the time? He said sure. So I told her I would shoot the second round and went and got my 42. I was shooting AA hull ,296, 1/2 oz 9,s in the clay buster clone of the AA. Long story short I broke a 40/50 with that 410. It was on the leader board for many years as high score with the 410. Fun gun but if a guy thinks he can do better than 85% he's dreaming.
Mb

25 at skeet....no problem.Same pattern as the 12 gauge,just less dense.

Shotgun shells have come a long way since the days of the 42. The 410 lacks bore diameter and payload to develop the kinds of patterns that you might expect from a larger bore. If you look at the shot column of a loaded 410 shell, it is much longer than it is wide. The 28 is the opposite, it is very square. This is the innate disadvantage of the 410 to any other common shotgun bore/gauge.

Modern wads preserve the roundedness of shot as they travel through the bore much better than old wads and shot cups of yore. Old shotguns were designed for the wads and shot cups of the time. Nowadays, loads retain their pattern much better simply because the modern shotgun shell wad does a better job of protecting and containing the load as it travels down the bore. As a result, much less choke (less constriction) is needed to keep your pattern tight at distance.

I typically hunt doves with an IC or light mod and ALWAYS kill more birds than my buddies who are stuck on using MOD or tighter chokes. Some of that is skill, but a lot is understanding that you need much less choke than you might think to kill birds at distance.

If I had a full choke 410, and that’s what most model 42 and other shotguns of the time were choked in, I might try using reclaimed shot or a lighter load. This will ruffle some feathers too, but if I was serious about shooting birds on the wing with a full choke 42, I would entertain the idea of having the choke opened up, especially if the gun was more a shooter as opposed to a collector grade gun. More likely, if I had a full choke 42, I might relegate it to rabbit or squirrel duty.

If you still had that gun I’d suggest acquiring a cylinder choke for the gun and see what that does to your skeet scores.

Amen

No Jeff that gun and I parted company manymoons a go.

I’ve yet to have one. Have several model 12s, but the 42 is still something for the future. One day…

I have found that choke is very insignificant in the .410 bore; none pattern very well, all increasingly lousy as range gets past about 25 yards.

A bit of the discussion above was about skeet chokes, and somebody noted that his skeet choke miked about IM (.009” or so). No accident. It seems skeet shooters in the late ‘40s or early ‘50s complained about targets slipping through the looser pattern (constriction then was about .003”), so Winchester tightened them up and still labeled them skeet.

Shoot high quality ammo with hard shot. I recommend buying several flats of AA skeet or sporting clays loads, reload the empties. The Winchester HS hull is good.

Have four prewar "skeet" stamped barrels. They mic 3, 5, 7, 8 thou. My postwars mic 10 and 11 thou.

The 3 thou gun gives weaker 3, 4, 5 crosser breaks. Even so, it gives better breaks than a "cyl" stamped gun......unless cutting targets in half is the goal.

My uncle bought one in 1937 in Lions Colorado. Used it for a few years until 1940 when he joined the navy. He used it to kill pheasants mostly.
I inherited it in 1996. I make more hits on flying game with it then I do with any other shotgun. At 30 to 35 yards it doesn't hammer the birds as much as my 12 or even my 20, but I miss less when hunting with it.

I just love that gun.

If you don’t mind my asking, what is the barrel length and how is it choked?

Thanks

it's a full choke and 28"

historically, the way i remember it, Winchester choked their skeet chokes ws1 = 3 thousands, and ws2 = 5 thousands.

As I mentioned earlier, Winchester changed to tighter .410 skeet chokes in the early/mid 50s. For several years, I had a 1957 Model 42 Skeet gun whose skeet choked measured .009”.

Winchester stamped "skeet" on 42s (.410), and also on M-12s and 21s in 28 ga. There are very rare factory exceptions. One is a hand-stamped WS-1 on Model 42s having the 2nd type vent rib. Those guns fall within a narrow SN range. There are many "Winchester reinventions" out there.

WS-1 and WS-2 were the skeet choke designations for 12, 16, and 20 ga - all models. Constrictions of WS-1s and WS-2s varied as with WW field choke designations. 12 ga WS-1s often have 6 to 9 thou. 16s and 20s usually have less. All 20 ga WS-1s I've measured had 3 thou. WS-2s are tighter, often approximating "mod". My WS-2 20s have around 10 thou.

Your observation is interesting, Sam, as I have had several 12 gauge Model 12s, and 21s too, whose WS-1 choke was in fact a reverse choke, or bell at the muzzle. The late model skeet gun I kept (prior to the Y series) is that way.

Most of the 42 skeet guns I've seen had Cutts on them. Not necessary for recoil reduction but served as a barrel weight to keep the swing smooth. Visually to me repugnant to take a sweet 42 and burden it with a Cutts but I been told they served their purpose..mb

You'll often see WS-1 described as "jug-choked", ie., Tula. This is exactly wrong. The constriction with WS-1 is some distance from the muzzle, followed by "bell" or "flare" at muzzle. Metal there is thin.

I remember they called it the pickle.

Its here!

I'll try to get my BIL to get me on video breaking skeet crossers in half with my cyl 42.

My long-deceased FIL gave me a model 42 back in the mid 70s. I never looked up the date of manufacture but it was old and we'll used by my 3 brothers in law as they were growing up on a farm. It was full choke with plain barrel. I gave it to my son who still has it. One of my grandsons brings it to the farm during squirrel season. It functions every time.

My 1962 Model 12 WS1 marked 12 gauge skeet gun has .004" of choke constriction 2-3/16" in from the muzzle of the 26" barrel. From there to the muzzle the choke flares out to greater than the internal bore diameter. Patterns are very even at 7 yards (distance from Sta 8 to where I break the skeet birds) and at 20 yards in my tests, approaching a cylinder choke in diameter but more uniform.

As a side note, the gun has a beautiful walnut butt stock and forend and works as well for gun down classic skeet as any shotgun I have ever fired.

And going back to the original M42 topic, my 1959 M42 with a 26" full choke and early Simmons Kansas City marked vent rib has -0.013" of choke constriction and throws a beautiful pattern that is about comparable in diameter to an IC choke in the larger gauges at 20 yards...18" diameter. But it is tight at 7 yards...4-1/4" diameter increasing the challenge on Station 8 at skeet. The pattern seems to spread faster than the larger gauges as the distance increases in my testing.

Inkball's today at station 4 high & low.Win 42 cylinder bore 1/2oz 8's.Can't get the video on.

If choke doesn't matter, as you say, try it with a full barrel 42, or at least one stamped "mod" or "skeet". Your breaks and scores will be no different, right?

I was "cutting those target's in half today".