Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Prettiest super grade I’ve seen in a while!

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/999386664

Sure looks like Al Biesen’s work.

Doesn't look like a Biesen to me. If it were, it would have sold for much more.

Besides price, what sticks out to you as being non-Biesen?

Maybe there is another, a 22 Hornet…

Damn dude. You have got some awesome rifles. Very cool.
I got one that's up there but have no idea how to post a pic. I know I know.

Damn! That's beautiful.

Fluer de lis checkering ain’t my thing. Nor is the light colored fire end tip. Easy pass IMO.

Shrap’s is much more my style. A beaut.

The stock may take your eyes away from the action and floor plate that have been shortened to 22 Hornet length. This gun was definitely made by a master…

Agreed

Lenard Brownell was the master of the Fleur-de-lis

Shrapnel, you are so correct, that rifle is a work of art done by someone who truly knew what he was doing. I'd like to know more about how the action was shortened.

Care to elaborate?

Are you ready to get rid of that old dilapidated chopped ruined all collectors value rifle now?

What bothers me is no stamp in the inletting by Biesen. Nor stamped on Barrel either for that matter.
Also, see where the cheekpiece meets the grip checkering - usually the line from the cheekpiece runs just over the grip so that there is no space between the cheekpiece and the checkering.

Could be an old stock and am sure that more than one got out of the shop without be stamped by Biesen.

Whoever purchased it got a very good deal even if not a Biesen and not a super grade.

The barrel has been replaced, in one of the pictures you can see inletting for the hated winchester barrel lump. The barrel is where Biesen signed his work. As for the cheek piece, I think it’s important to remember that even a master was once an apprentice. Another clue is found in the checkering patterns. The grip pattern is the same one used on JOC’s #2 rifle, and the forend pattern is identical to the one used on Biesens personal rifle, which was also stocked in tiger striped maple.

Sorry ismith, it just does not look like a Biesen to me. Even an apprentice Biesen would turn out better work than that. The fleur de lis is not representative of a Biesen piece to me at all and the wood to metal fit is not great. The factory butt plate looks out of place and someone haphazardly ground on the bolt handle. Those are not traits of a true Biesen rifle. Also the checkering panels are not reminiscent of any Biesen stock I've seen, not even getting into the flaws I can count. As a good buddy, here, used to tell me: "You can spot a Biesen in a crowded room". BobinNH was absolutely correct about that one!! However, if you like the rifle that is all that matters. I have some that guys would probably turn their noses up to, but I like them. Again, that is all that matters. If it is yours, shoot it and let us know how it performs. With a custom barrel, I'd expect it to shoot lights out!!! But it looks like someone really hammered on that one and drug it behind their pickup. Also, I don't think guys hate the barrel boss/dog knot like you said. I could care less either way. However, I like the fwt profile much better because it's lighter. Those old Winchester barrels would shoot man. Whether they were std wt or fwt. Most Winchester guys know that. Furthermore, if that was an original supergrade, it is more than likely that they did more harm than good by "upgrading" it. Trying to keep this post civil, but that's what I'm seeing.

No reason to not stay civil, I welcome discussion even if it’s disagreement. I once owned a Niedner /Al Linden rifle with nearly identical fleur de Liz that was stocked while he was covering for Shelhamer after he blew his hand up. Biesen was heavily influenced by Al Linden. I recommend Al Linden’s book on stockmaking if you’ve never read it. He talks very tongue-in-cheek about the winchester barrel lump.

Al Biesens personal rifle, note forend panel.
https://www.outdoorcanada.ca/straig...irearm-appraisals-from-our-gun-expert/6/

I'll have to agree with BSA on this one, its not a Biesen. The fleur style is not the long, slenderly proportioned fleur that is Biesen's trademark. These are a much shorter, broader style NOT reminiscent of Biesen's work. Someone has copied his checkering pattern and added their own interpretative style, IMHO.