Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Old German .41 caliber rifle - G.L. Rasch

I saw a photo of an older German rifle with exposed hammers made by G.L. Rasch Braunschweig that was said to be chambered in .41 caliber which is not a round that I recognized. I was curious if anyone would be willing to speculate what cartridge this might be based on that limited information. I wasn't able to find detailed info about the rifles this company produced possibly because RAF bombers obliterated it & all its records in October of '44. Unfortunately trying to Google information brings up a lot of hits for revolver, derringer & muzzle loaders but no interesting hits on a breech loaded centerfire rifle.





For a moment I thought maybe they meant it was a .410 gauge instead of a .41 caliber but it has rear sights on the barrel like an express rifle so I was just left to be puzzled by it.

Maybe 10.4 x 38r Swiss Vetterli.

Thanks for the reply. There’s so many obscure, abandoned & wildcat cartridges out there, I thought that asking this question would be a long shot. But there’s a few people on these forums who know about all kinds of odd cartridges so I figured it wouldn’t hurt to ask either.

You cannot find something on the internet unless somebody has put it there,
maybe even looked it up in a book first !
Somebody must be describing a metric cartridge by an imperial/inch caliber ?

I have a book called EUROPEAN SPORTING CARTRIDGES by W. B. Dixon of New Zealand.
In first section, "German and Austrian Cartridge Development Before WWI,"
looking through it I see that cartridges with metric designations might be for the bore diameter of 10.25mm
and the bullet diameter will be larger, like so:
10.25x35R bullet diameter = 10.46mm = 0.4118" ["... RWS/Utendoerffer c1898-c1908 catalogs but not the 1912 catalog."]
10.25x40R bullet diameter = 10.41mm = 0.4098" ["Shown in the RWS/Utendoerffer (in the c1898-c1908 catalogs) and the Lorenz c1886 Export catalog ..."]
10.25x42R bullet diameter = 10.41mm ... ["... Not to be confused with the 10.25x42R Swiss."]
10.25x47R bullet diameter = 10.35mm = 0.4075" ... etc.

Above are "Target" cartridges, likely for Schuetzen BP work, I guess.
A lightweight, hammer-DR so chambered might have been a neat little roe deer rifle.

But note, the 10.25x60R actually has a bullet diameter of 10.25mm = 0.4035", according to this book of mine.

I think that is a very accurate observation and most probably correct. Thanks for the detailed reply. This is an area that I am not very knowledgeable about so I appreciate the info. Doing a bit more searching around, I have found the online information to be very sparse. But I did locate one old auction where it appears this company did make a rifle chambered in the Swiss 10.3x60r at some point so that seems to substantiate your guess that it is probably a round in the 10.* range.

https://www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/throwing-rocks-on-mountain-hunts

Great article by Ron Spomer, one of the few things he ever wrote that I have found interesting.

That W. B. Dixon book had only a brief mention in appendix of 10.3x60R being a metric designation for the old British .450/.400 2-3/8".
Agrees with Spomer who said same.
Spomer said that bullet diameter is 0.413".

Hoyem Vol. 3:
He says bullet diameter was 0.405".
Things change over time and going from UK to Switzerland, eh ?

Hoyem: "This case type was developed during the 1880s because it is not found in rolled case Boxer form ..."

Eley loads:
255-gr paper-patched lead bullet with 80 grains BP
235-gr "Express" bullet was also used
H&H loads:
Used grease-grooved bullets, similar bullet weights and black powder charges.
Later nitro-for-black load:
270-gr nickel jacketed bullet (with flat nose and hollow point), 32 grains of Cordite
listed as late as 1955 in ICI catalog

Modern loads by the Swiss use .413-cal. bullets from 200-gr to 400-gr, according to Spomer.
Nice little DR for sure if it can handle the modern loads.

Lot of Scheutzen rifles in 8.15X46R which was only about 32 cal.

I have two firearms by G.L. Rasch, a Haenel/Rasch in 9 X 57 on an 88 Commission rifle and a combination gun in 10.5 X 47R X 16 bore. The cartridge could well be the 10.5 X 47R. There was an entire series of cartridges based on the 11.15 X 60R shortened to 47mm. As Riflecrank mentioned, several were target cartridges. I don't know if Rasch was a maker or just a retailer.

My 10.5 X 47R is just a bit larger than my 40-82 was and I'm shooting the same weight bullet over 62 or 63 grs. of Ffg. I think I size bullets to .410 for the 10.5 and that's according to a barrel slug, not converting mm's to inches.

Thanks for the info sharps4590. I had stumbled across an auction for a left-handed double rifle which is very uncommon. But the seller didn’t know the exact caliber because they didn’t make the effort to do any kind of chamber cast. I was intrigued but all I had was a vague indication of the size of the round. It turned out that someone else was willing to pay a lot more than I would so any temptation to take a gamble & purchase it was removed.

That is a fine looking double and a rarity in left handed....and I'm a sucker for hammer doubles. I must be, I have two and had 3 at one time. My other two doubles are a Vierordt in 8 X 65R Brenneke and a Merkel O/U in 8 X 60R Magnum.