Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters SUCKY GUN-RAGS

Excellent post, RRM.

I bet most of us have spent years fooling with guns and reading about them. Most of the magazines are not geared up toward us but toward the "mainstream" types in the hobby. Keep in mind, you and I have been reading Keith, O'Connor, et al. since we were kids, own a large safe full of guns, and reload for everything but Joe Q. Gunowner isn't like that. Old Joe ain't as up on things as we are but he is the one that buys magazines. The market dictates what is published. I've gotten Rifle and Handloader both for years and really think they've become more general in subject matter- but I understand that if they are not making a profit they won't be around long.

Fooling with rifles and hunting is just like any other hobby. There's us looneys and then there's everyone else. I used to be heavily involved in War Between the States reenacting. All my clothing and gear was made as perfectly correct as possible down to even the same stitch count per inch like the originals. When at an event I ate period food and slept either on or under an oilcloth depending on the weather. Now for every "hardcore" living historian like me there were probably 50-100 "mainstream" types that wore unauthentic uniforms and slept in tents or campers. Now us hardcore boys would complain about the "farbs" as we would call them and make fun of them, but the fact is that the mainstreamers were the ones that kept the hobby alive and healthy.

There is also a finite amount of matter that can be written about in this hobby. IIRC, Jack O'Connor once wrote that he had to repeat himself and had written up "How To Sight In A Rifle" about a dozen times. I think folks like our Mule Deer do an exemplary job in coming up with new subjects and new views on oft touched subjects. I've seen Brian Pearce criticized for writing up the same revolver cartridges a lot, but so did legendary writers like Keith and Skelton. By the time I was 12 or 13, I had both their favorite 44 and 45 loads committed to memory yet I always enjoyed and still enjoy reading everything they wrote.

All that being said, I wonder sometimes if the very face of our favorite pasttime is changing along with society. Someone must be interested in all that "Tactical" stuff. Of course, when I was younger I had to have a S&W M29 like Keith and a 32/20 like Skelton. I've always been goofy over single action revolvers and single shot rifles. Maybe what we like is a result of maturation or maybe it is just what we grew up with.

Rambling over.

As my interest in acquiring new guns has diminished and my interest in taking more hunting trips has increased I find myself drifting away from gun rags and moving more to hunting mags. I handload for all my guns but stop experimenting when I find the right load to propel a TSX of the appropriate weight into a reasonable group. I have allowed all but Rifle in the Wolfe series to expire. I don't know if I will keep it or not when the time to renew comes around. I still get Sports Afield, Hatari Times, African Hunter and African Sporthunting Gazette. These tend to be more about hunts and a little less about gear. I like the idea of buying off the rack when there is an article or articles of interest in the other mags. I guess at 58 I've figured out what works for me and just want more oppurtunities to apply it. I may be slipping out of loony status.
PS The prescence of sites like this on the net deliver far more info than you can get from the gun rags.

I�m not a kid and I�m not a writer (big Surprise)� I take most if not all the big offenders here and have for years� heck I have 3 years saved in containers in my reloading room. I have no complaints; I understand not every article will interest me� but in EVERY issue I find something of interest which justifies the price. If you don�t like what they print, send them a letter and let them know what you like� you just may get it... They have to sell subscriptions. If you just cancel they don�t know why and can�t fix it.

We have to expect the overlap between mags� there is only so much you can write about.

I used to get all the Wolfe pubs. I let them expire. Recently I bought a Rifle off the rack. After reading it I remembered while I let it expire. Mule Deer and 458 win are the only decent writers left there. 458win's article was about 10 words and Mule Deer's article on his 10 favorite rifles left me wishing for the kind of full write-up on one rifle that Seyfried used to do

Sports Afield is the only magazine I get now and it isn't really a gun mag.

SUCCESSFUL HUNTER also isn't a gun magazine. Instead the rifle aticles appear in RIFLE and HANDLOADER.

I guess you didn't notice that almost all the rifles on my top 10 list had already been covered in more detail previously in various articles in R & H.

Actually I have thought about picking up a SH again, although it is sometimes hard to find in my corner of Wyoming. I'd especially like to see one now that you (Mule Deer) are the editor.

It had been quite awhile since I looked at a Rifle or Handloader so I probably did miss the full write ups. There's a good reason though why I missed those articles; the mags went so far downhill it wasn't worth the price.

I am well aware that the rifle articles appear in RIFLE and HANDLOADER. But thank you for the sarcasm. I appreciate/enjoy most of your writing, but your above paragraphs ain't luring back to Wolfe.

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic, just pointing out a fact, mostly for the benefit of others who might not have opened the magazine. You didn't sound like you were going to re-subscribe to any of the three mags anyway. Over time I have learned not to waste time trying to persuade people to do something they obviously don't want to do.

Guess they could always start their own magazine.

Then they could do it "right"...

DN

Most of the time when I get home with the magazine I am reading for 10 min or so then I got all I could out of it!!!

Looked at the newest Rifle mag and read Haviland's longrange elk hunting piece.

No mentions of ballistic and environmental data accounted for when shooting. What about PDA software, and windmeters, humidity, elevation, station pressure, and cosine angle indicators.

He looked like a fool when advance rifle men and snipers read that little piece.

Leupold Boone and Croket reticles. Ha Ha. Is that what he wants to use.

Range it, calculate it, click it, send it = dump it.

"No mentions of ballistic and environmental data accounted for when shooting. What about PDA software, and windmeters, humidity, elevation, station pressure, and cosine angle indicators."

Geez elkcreek, are you still hunting with such primitive gear? How quaint. No remote sensing, no satellite data, no infrared targetting, no radar? You're still hunting inside the horizon? And you call your self a modern hunter? Harrumph.

(Rocky faints from the irony. . . .)

Actually, I suspect John Haviland has more experience at shooting at really long range than 99.5% of hunters. Thus he knows that math is great, but that there are a lot of variables that math doesn't cover, such as variables in the wind between here and there, and how much a single step by an elk can affect shot placement.

John, by the way, once shot a prairie dog at 1300 yards in front of several witnesses. (The range was confirmed by Leica laser.) And that was with a .22-250....

The only mag that I stopped purchasing was Shooting Times. I always read Rick Jamisons articles on reloading and when he was gone I lost interest. I still get Handloader and Rifle, and ignore most of the adds because I buy them for the articles. I usually read articles from Mr. Barsness and Craig Boddington with great interest. I appreciate their no-nonsense type of writing. The only publication I am dissapointed with is Petersens Hunting Annual. When I first got these in the early 80's there were stories on hunting all over the world by all of the best writers of the day. Now it is nothing but Deer Hunting. I still look at those old mags by the way. Some really good stuff still in there from Finn Aagard and Bob Milek.

Su 35, Rat Rod Mac, Rocky Rabb, and Mule Deer are all on target.
My question to all of the magazine bashers, is Why?
This a Gunwriters Forum, where gun and hunting writers visit, to share their experiences and knowledge, and interact with us others. We, me included, profit from them being here. They come here out of the goodness of their hearts, and make no money by coming here. They all currently write for gun and hunting publications, or did so in Dogzapper's case. These writers derive their source of livelihood from publications that you guys are destroying by the incessant bashing that goes on REGULARLY here on this very same Forum that the writers visit. Why????????? Do you get some inner satisfaction by destroying a man's source of livelihood? And, don't give me any constructive criticism nonsense. None of the above posts were constructive, they were destructive, except for those guys I mentioned above. You are biting off the hand that feeds you... Or, are you trying to have this Gunwriters Forum removed from 24 Hour Campfire by driving ALL of the gunwriters away? We've already lost a large number of gunwriters who used to visit here regularly by treating them badly.
For your information, gun and hunting magazines are an important part of our infrastructer. I don't want to see them destroyed. Rather, I am of the position that we should do everything in our power to have these magazines excel, along with the guys who write for them.

Don

Edit to add: FC363 posted while I was typing. His post is responsible too.

Actually, negative criticism here isn't destroying the magazines I write for. All thre Wlfe magazines continue to increase in circulation and are quite healthy.

It is claimed that the Internet is where "real" information is these days, but this in itself must be loked at critically. Despite all the gun-rag bashing seen (which appears to repeat itself as new Campfire members sign on, without any knowledge of the long history of gun-rag bashing here), I doubt paid circualtion is affected. It's probably more related to the quality of the magazines themselves.

This also applies to other things. The Nosler AccuBond has been bashed repeatedly on the Campfire by some (not all) members, yet is the best-selling Nosler bullet.

JB, not one poster "got" one of my posts above.

About once a month, somebody will post here and complain about how repetitive the monthly magazines are.

Even my Momma's cooking wasn't as delicious as that bite of irony.

DMB, I got the thread started, and so I think it time for me to chime in as to why I started it.
I cam from a background heavily teeped in reading, research, and hands on experince in shooting guns. The guy that was like a mentor and brother to me ( look here http://www.msnusers.com/JWHamrickfiles
for some info on him if you like)I worked with on a part-time basis for more than 10 years, and with another tactial-type shop too, and during that I gained alot of knowledge....then just sort of lost intrest, fo rabout 10 years! I got back in in 2000, and so most of my knowledge, besides having a really big chunk missing, is based on older info and stuff, so as before, I began to read and research. Eventually, I stumbled on to Wolfe publications, which led me here.

now the reason I bored you with that is to let you know at no time would I ever deny a man his livelihood! I take some umberage to this statement. In other threads wherein people whine about Wolfe stuff, I have suggested that if they feel it sucs that bad, then please, submit your articles and make it better. I am betting that none have, and yeah, that includes me.

When doing that research as I mentioned above, I have noticed a few things about most gun mags, and I think it is pretty sucky. Many have fallen prey to being under one big umbrella. I will name one in particular and that is PRIMEMEDIA. That is disturbing because they are little more than just commercials. If you spen $500+ on a gun these days, would you want it to be a piece of crap? Could you depend on many of the publications out there to tell you so?

That was the reason for the posting, so if you don't like the thread, feel free to not add to it.

All the best,
Bruce

You have made some excellent points. However, I agree with many that the overall quality of gun mags has declined & I am sure it is due to the small amount paid for the average article published by many of these publications. This was explained by JB some time ago. It appears that either the publishers have more articles available(however, poorly written & researched) from writers than needed or simply do feel that writers should be adequately paid to prepare well written & researched articles. This is why I stopped subscribing to most hunting mags other than Wolfe publications. Perhaps, why the topic continues to reappear is the elites attitude by some. Gun mags contain technical information beneath them,rifles can only have McMillan stocks & Leupold or European scopes, & utilize the latest bullet loaded to maximum pressure or beyond. This is not to say I'm not at least partially guilty since I use Leupold & European scopes,handload, & own one McMillan.

I enjoy reading Handloader, Rifle Shooter and Rifle. I have always enjoyed John "Mule Deer" Barsness articles. Especially the Rifle articles Rifles for Big Deer and Practical Accuracy and Trajectory. Since I am a huge 308 Win fan and user, I especially enjoyed the Handloader piece Why the .308 Win is Great, Versatility! Thanks for the great work John.

John, do you still have your beloved FN Mauser in 270 Win w/ Gentry mounts? Bet you do.

I also enjoy reading Jon Sunda a great deal as well, as he has a great sense of humor and is a dyed in the wool bolt-gun rifle crank. He always comes up with excellent comparisons among cartridges and rifles and experiences in general. In the end he always spins a light hearted "don't sweat it to much" attitude about it all.

The rest of the rags are not really my cup of tea. I glance and catch a piece here or there, but the above rags mentioned are all I read anymore.

This post strays somewhat from the main topic of the thread, but, I, for one, am glad to see the magazine writers write on here. I just wish they would do it more often, and that more would join in.

In my teens, Jack O'Conner and Warren Page were the top writers of the day, and I always imagined them as rolling in money, with rooms full of custom rifles, and safaris and hunting trips to exocitic places planned years in advance, with the best guides and outfitters, of course.

To me, these writers were larger than life, but now, I have come to the conclusion that they put their pants on one leg at a time, the same as I do. I guess they did, anyway.

It is refreshing, for me at least, to read Mule Deer's and others post, to see the human side of their lives. It is difficult for me to imagine a gun writer having an everyday life, meaning bills, insurance payments, house payments, wives, kids, parents and all, just like the rest of us.