24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 1
A
arky65 Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
A
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 1
link

5 minute read



Donald Trump was back on X, the social media platform formerly known as Twitter, last night for the first time since he got the boot in 2021 following the riot by his supporters at the U.S. Capitol. Trump posted the mug shot of him that was taken at Atlanta's jail this week when he was booked on the charges laid out in his Georgia indictment, which stem from his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results in that state. He included a caption that described the indictment as "ELECTION INTERFERENCE" and urged his followers to "NEVER SURRENDER!"

After taking over the platform that was then known as Twitter last year, Elon Musk, an avowed "free speech absolutist," reinstated Trump's account. But this is the first time that Trump, who started a competing platform that is still known as Truth Social, has made use of Musk's permission. The Washington Post, in a news story published this morning, portrays Musk's decision and the attitude underlying it as part of a worrisome trend that threatens "democracy" by allowing "political misinformation" to proliferate on social media. The piece nicely illustrates the confusion, obfuscation, and hypocrisy that characterize mainstream press coverage of that subject.

As is typical of this journalistic genre, Post reporters Naomi Nix and Sarah Ellison never address the question of what counts as "misinformation," a highly contested category. Nor do they grapple with the content moderation problem of how to deal with politicians who say things of public interest that are arguably or demonstrably untrue. And although they allude to a constitutional challenge provoked by the federal government's efforts to restrict speech on social media platforms, they never mention the First Amendment. That is a pretty striking omission by people whose profession relies on that amendment's protections and who claim to be worried about the health of our democracy.

Nix and Ellison warn that "social media companies are receding from their role as watchdogs against political misinformation, abandoning their most aggressive efforts to police online falsehoods in a trend expected to profoundly affect the 2024 presidential election." Under Musk's baneful influence, they complain, Facebook and YouTube have "backed away from policing misleading claims" and "are receding from their role as watchdogs against conspiracy theories."

The main conspiracy theory that Nix and Ellison have in mind, of course, is the one claiming that systematic fraud, including deliberately corrupted voting machines and massive numbers of phony ballots, deprived Trump of his rightful victory in the 2020 election. As they note, neither Trump nor his lawyers ever produced any credible evidence to support that theory. Yet Trump, who currently is by far the leading contender for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination, still claims he actually won reelection, and the sincerity of that belief is a central issue in both the Georgia case and his federal prosecution for conspiring to make that fantasy a reality. As Nix and Ellison note, most Republican voters—63 percent, according to a CNN poll conducted in May—agree with Trump that Joe Biden "did not legitimately win enough votes to win the presidency."

As Nix and Ellison see it, none of those people should be allowed to express that view on social media. They also think it was clearly wrong for X to let Tucker Carlson post his recent interview with Trump, which was timed to coincide with the Republican presidential debate he skipped. "Trump capitalized on [Musk's] relaxed standards" in that interview, they complain, by reiterating his "false claims that the 2020 election was 'rigged' and that the Democrats had 'cheated' to elect Biden."

For me, that unilluminating, sycophantic interview, during which Carlson never asked a challenging question and let Trump ramble on about whatever random subjects flitted through his mind, was hard to watch. But as I write, it has racked up more than 256 million views, which suggests that more than a few people were interested in what Trump had to say. By comparison, Fox News says fewer than 13 million people watched its broadcast of the debate that Trump skipped.

X, in short, seems to be giving people what they want, which makes good business sense. One might also argue, as Carlson did, that "whatever you think of Trump…voters have an interest in hearing what he thinks," since he is the "indisputable, far-and-away front-runner in the Republican race."

Nix and Ellison do not see it that way. For the good of democracy, they think, social media platforms should be showing users political content only if it can be certified as accurate. That is, of course, an impossible challenge, one that is magnified by the difficulty of determining when speech, although not demonstrably false, nevertheless qualifies as "misinformation" because it is "misleading." Policing "hate speech," which Nix and Ellison also want the platforms to do, poses similar problems of interpretation and judgment.

The major platforms define their content moderation mission more narrowly than Nix and Ellison would like. "We remove content that misleads voters on how to vote or encourages interference in the democratic process," YouTube told the Post. "Additionally, we connect people to authoritative election news and information through recommendations and information panels." Meta, which owns Facebook, Instagram, and Threads, was vaguer. "Protecting the U.S. 2024 elections is one of our top priorities," it said, "and our integrity efforts continue to lead the industry."

No matter how they decide to flag or suppress content, the platforms will be pissing off a lot of people. There is "no winning," Katie Harbath, former director of public policy at Facebook, told the Post. "For Democrats, we weren't taking down enough, and for Republicans we were taking down too much." In light of those conflicting demands, Harbath said, Facebook decided "it's just not worth it anymore."

This situation becomes even more difficult and complicated when federal officials start demanding that social media companies do more to suppress speech those officials view as dangerous to democracy, public health, or national security. It also becomes constitutionally problematic—a point that Nix and Ellison do not even acknowledge. Instead they complain that "an aggressive legal battle over claims that the Biden administration pressured social media platforms to silence certain speech has blocked a key path to detecting election interference."

Those are not merely "claims." The Biden administration indisputably "pressured social media platforms," publicly and privately, "to silence certain speech." The legal question is whether that pressure amounted to government-directed censorship, in violation of the First Amendment. A federal judge concluded that it did.

Nix and Ellison probably disagree with that decision. But they do not even mention it, let alone explain why they think it was wrong. More generally, they seem completely untroubled by the free speech implications of not-so-subtly threatening social media companies with antitrust litigation, heavier regulation, and increased exposure to civil liability if they fail to follow the government's content moderation recommendations.

Nix and Ellison repeatedly raise the specter of foreign interference with U.S. elections. The "new approach" to content moderation, they say, "marks a sharp shift from the 2020 election, when social media companies expanded their efforts to police disinformation. The companies feared a repeat of 2016, when Russian trolls attempted to interfere in the U.S. presidential campaign, turning the platforms into tools of political manipulation and division."

Those sinister-sounding efforts were pretty pitiful, less than a drop in the bucket of the "misinformation" and "disinformation" that Americans themselves regularly produce. By invoking a foreign threat, Nix and Ellison distract readers from the central issue, which is whether democracy is better served by heavy-handed moderation that aims to shield social media users from false, misleading, and hateful speech or by the more free-wheeling approach that Musk prefers. They think the answer is obvious, which is why they present their advocacy as straight news reporting.

Last edited by arky65; 08/27/23.

There is a war on America and America is losing
GB1

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 23,119
Likes: 16
V
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
V
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 23,119
Likes: 16
Arky65: It leads to the "washington post" - NO thank you.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 1
A
arky65 Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
A
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 1
For me, it goes to reason.com, it is an article about the WAPO article.

Has anyone else hit the link and been taken to WAPO?

Last edited by arky65; 08/27/23.

There is a war on America and America is losing
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,981
Likes: 10
4
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
4
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,981
Likes: 10
Misinformation in my opinion is saying the 2020 election was honest. Misinformation in my opinion is saying the Russians influenced the election. Who is going to judge what misinformation is?

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,873
Likes: 7
RAM Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,873
Likes: 7
America is not and never was a Democracy.

If more people knew this, we could take our Country back.


America is (supposed to be) a Republic, NOT a democracy. Learn the difference, help end the lie. Fear a government that fears your guns.
IC B2

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Originally Posted by 45_100
Misinformation in my opinion is saying the 2020 election was honest. Misinformation in my opinion is saying the Russians influenced the election. Who is going to judge what misinformation is?

And yet, all actual factual evidence points to the contrary in both cases.

This is the problem. People hear what they want to hear. You want 2020 to have been stolen, so you are prone to misinformation that reinforces that belief.

This would be academic if we were talking about the health benefits of bananas or something. When it’s literally about the continuation of our Republic as stands, considering we have a heavily-armed and easily horned-up fringe right just itching to tear it all down….and an easily-excited far left that makes a mess of urban areas but at least isn’t heavily armed… it’s not academic.

Truth matters. Reality matters. I am a free speech advocate, along with all other freedoms. At some point, especially if there are foreign actors actively spreading disinfo, you gotta do SOMETHING. No?

One of the primary aims of disinfo is achieving exactly what it has: corrode the info-sphere to the point that people just give up and follow charismatic strongmen types. “It’s all shït, so believe ME!” becomes the mantra. The Liar’s Dividend comes into full force. And here we are, or at least some of us.


The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 8,673
Likes: 2
A
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
A
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 8,673
Likes: 2
To think Someone Kiss’n this Drool .

Hahahaha Hahahaha

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,981
Likes: 10
4
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
4
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,981
Likes: 10
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
Originally Posted by 45_100
Misinformation in my opinion is saying the 2020 election was honest. Misinformation in my opinion is saying the Russians influenced the election. Who is going to judge what misinformation is?

And yet, all actual factual evidence points to the contrary in both cases.

This is the problem. People hear what they want to hear. You want 2020 to have been stolen, so you are prone to misinformation that reinforces that belief.

This would be academic if we were talking about the health benefits of bananas or something. When it’s literally about the continuation of our Republic as stands, considering we have a heavily-armed and easily horned-up fringe right just itching to tear it all down….and an easily-excited far left that makes a mess of urban areas but at least isn’t heavily armed… it’s not academic.

Truth matters. Reality matters. I am a free speech advocate, along with all other freedoms. At some point, especially if there are foreign actors actively spreading disinfo, you gotta do SOMETHING. No?

One of the primary aims of disinfo is achieving exactly what it has: corrode the info-sphere to the point that people just give up and follow charismatic strongmen types. “It’s all shït, so believe ME!” becomes the mantra. The Liar’s Dividend comes into full force. And here we are, or at least some of us.

Another example of disinformation. The evidence exists. The courts have refused to hear the evidence, not because it is not credible but for BS reasons like not having standing. One honest judge, willing to stand up to the threats and refuse the payoffs could turn this whole thing upside down.

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 12,251
Likes: 14
O
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
O
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 12,251
Likes: 14
Originally Posted by 45_100
… Another example of disinformation. The evidence exists. The courts have refused to hear the evidence, not because it is not credible but for BS reasons like not having standing. One honest judge, willing to stand up to the threats and refuse the payoffs could turn this whole thing upside down.

One honest judge would “arkancided” in a week.



Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,981
Likes: 10
4
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
4
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,981
Likes: 10
Originally Posted by Orion2000
Originally Posted by 45_100
… Another example of disinformation. The evidence exists. The courts have refused to hear the evidence, not because it is not credible but for BS reasons like not having standing. One honest judge, willing to stand up to the threats and refuse the payoffs could turn this whole thing upside down.

One honest judge would “arkancided” in a week.

Exactly!

IC B3

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,340
7
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
7
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,340
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
Originally Posted by 45_100
Misinformation in my opinion is saying the 2020 election was honest. Misinformation in my opinion is saying the Russians influenced the election. Who is going to judge what misinformation is?

And yet, all actual factual evidence points to the contrary in both cases.

This is the problem. People hear what they want to hear. You want 2020 to have been stolen, so you are prone to misinformation that reinforces that belief.

This would be academic if we were talking about the health benefits of bananas or something. When it’s literally about the continuation of our Republic as stands, considering we have a heavily-armed and easily horned-up fringe right just itching to tear it all down….and an easily-excited far left that makes a mess of urban areas but at least isn’t heavily armed… it’s not academic.

Truth matters. Reality matters. I am a free speech advocate, along with all other freedoms. At some point, especially if there are foreign actors actively spreading disinfo, you gotta do SOMETHING. No?

One of the primary aims of disinfo is achieving exactly what it has: corrode the info-sphere to the point that people just give up and follow charismatic strongmen types. “It’s all shït, so believe ME!” becomes the mantra. The Liar’s Dividend comes into full force. And here we are, or at least some of us.

You are not capable of self sufficiency, are you?

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
I’m self employed, and self-taught at what I do. I built my house. And my shop. And my barn. I heat with 4 cords of wood/year which I have been bringing in myself, every year, for over 30 years. I’ve paid for (1) oil change my entire life. When my well pump needs replaced, I pull it from 135’ down and replace it. When an appliance breaks I fix it. And so on.

I’m more capable of self-sufficiency than most here and in FACT, I’m living it and have been my whole life.

WTF does that have to do with this thread topic?

I know everyone is pissed because I support Trump’s indictments. A big reason why, is that that guy has created an entire world of disinfo around himself. It’s the water he swims in. That was one thing when he was just conning people over fake college degrees or oversold real estate. It’s not fine when it’s used to foment revolution under false pretenses. Courtrooms are places with zero tolerance for disinfo; it’s put up or shut up. I’m pretty glad that particular fountain of disinfo is about to get shut the [bleep] up, at least as regards his corrosive stolen-election lies.

Or, he can show his proof and ram it up my, the MSM’s, and the deep state’s ass. But it’ll have to be ACTUAL info. I’m not sure he even knows what that means anymore. Dude has gaslighted his own bad self on top of all his followers. Sad!


The CENTER will hold.

Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two

FÜCK PUTIN!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 28,618
Likes: 10
A
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
A
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 28,618
Likes: 10
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
I’m self employed, and self-taught at what I do. I built my house. And my shop. And my barn. I heat with 4 cords of wood/year which I have been bringing in myself, every year, for over 30 years. I’ve paid for (1) oil change my entire life. When my well pump needs replaced, I pull it from 135’ down and replace it. When an appliance breaks I fix it. And so on.

I’m more capable of self-sufficiency than most here and in FACT, I’m living it and have been my whole life.

WTF does that have to do with this thread topic?

I know everyone is pissed because I support Trump’s indictments. A big reason why, is that that guy has created an entire world of disinfo around himself. It’s the water he swims in. That was one thing when he was just conning people over fake college degrees or oversold real estate. It’s not fine when it’s used to foment revolution under false pretenses. Courtrooms are place with zero tolerance for disinfo; it’s put up or shut up. I’m pretty glad that particular fountain of disinfo is about to get shut the [bleep] up, at least as regard his corrosive election lies.

Or, he can show his proof and ram it up my, the MSM’s, and the deep state’s ass. But it’ll have to be ACTUAL info. I’m not sure he even knows what that means anymore. Dude has gaslighted his own bad self on top of all his followers. Sad!
GFY you anti American fakgkot.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 12,172
Likes: 20
R
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
R
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 12,172
Likes: 20
Dayum an unrepentant hippie.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,568
Likes: 5
B
BLG Online Content
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
B
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,568
Likes: 5
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
I’m self employed, and self-taught at what I do. I built my house. And my shop. And my barn. I heat with 4 cords of wood/year which I have been bringing in myself, every year, for over 30 years. I’ve paid for (1) oil change my entire life. When my well pump needs replaced, I pull it from 135’ down and replace it. When an appliance breaks I fix it. And so on.

I’m more capable of self-sufficiency than most here and in FACT, I’m living it and have been my whole life.

WTF does that have to do with this thread topic?

I know everyone is pissed because I support Trump’s indictments. A big reason why, is that that guy has created an entire world of disinfo around himself. It’s the water he swims in. That was one thing when he was just conning people over fake college degrees or oversold real estate. It’s not fine when it’s used to foment revolution under false pretenses. Courtrooms are places with zero tolerance for disinfo; it’s put up or shut up. I’m pretty glad that particular fountain of disinfo is about to get shut the [bleep] up, at least as regards his corrosive stolen-election lies.

Or, he can show his proof and ram it up my, the MSM’s, and the deep state’s ass. But it’ll have to be ACTUAL info. I’m not sure he even knows what that means anymore. Dude has gaslighted his own bad self on top of all his followers. Sad!

OMG!

Hahahahahaha


Clyde


The liberal mind is an endless black hole of stupidity.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 28,618
Likes: 10
A
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
A
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 28,618
Likes: 10
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
I’m self employed, and self-taught at what I do. I built my house. And my shop. And my barn. I heat with 4 cords of wood/year which I have been bringing in myself, every year, for over 30 years. I’ve paid for (1) oil change my entire life. When my well pump needs replaced, I pull it from 135’ down and replace it. When an appliance breaks I fix it. And so on.

I’m more capable of self-sufficiency than most here and in FACT, I’m living it and have been my whole life.

WTF does that have to do with this thread topic?

I know everyone is pissed because I support Trump’s indictments. A big reason why, is that that guy has created an entire world of disinfo around himself. It’s the water he swims in. That was one thing when he was just conning people over fake college degrees or oversold real estate. It’s not fine when it’s used to foment revolution under false pretenses. Courtrooms are places with zero tolerance for disinfo; it’s put up or shut up. I’m pretty glad that particular fountain of disinfo is about to get shut the [bleep] up, at least as regards his corrosive stolen-election lies.

Or, he can show his proof and ram it up my, the MSM’s, and the deep state’s ass. But it’ll have to be ACTUAL info. I’m not sure he even knows what that means anymore. Dude has gaslighted his own bad self on top of all his followers. Sad!
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24



421 members (10gaugemag, 10ring1, 19rabbit52, 17CalFan, 10gaugeman, 160user, 48 invisible), 3,429 guests, and 1,169 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,194,638
Posts18,533,570
Members74,041
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.120s Queries: 46 (0.025s) Memory: 0.8909 MB (Peak: 0.9917 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-05-24 04:03:26 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS