Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Bowhunting Cedar Arrow for Recurve Recommendation?

I have been gifted a very pretty 69" Howatt, 40# @ 28" bow (Century 21 model?) with a plastic flipper rest by a very experienced gentleman. Have been successfully using a 65# Browning Tornado with a two prong rest for >20 years, in recent seasons with 29" Easton Carbon Storm or 29.5" Gold Tip/Rage mechanical (both 340's), so I'm obviously not chasing the cutting edge of archery technology. When I was a kid I used to shoot a recurve, and going back to traditional appeals to me. As I recall, my arrows were about 31" (used to get teased about flinging telephone poles; for a 6' guy I guess I have long arms). This new bow has sentimental value, and I'd really like to use it while my benefactor is still around to enjoy it with me. Can anyone steer me in the right direction for determining which cedar arrows and cut on impact broad heads I should go with? I have been told to expect that at my draw length, the draw weight might be approaching 46#. My understanding from memory is that arrows fired from traditional bows fishtail rather than porpoise to clear the riser. I also believe that feathers are more forgiving than plastic vanes in that regard? I have a bunch of turkey feathers, and wouldn't mind trying to fletch my own arrows. I have searched cedar blanks and found some results, I just don't want to waste time with the wrong spine, etc. I'm thinking Zwickey two blades still work now, as they did then, but am open to suggestions. I have shot some long (~30") 2117 XX75's with this bow at a brace height of 7.25" (still breaking in the new Dacron string), and they didn't fly too bad at all. Our local barber is an experienced traditional bow hunter and is available to help me with this project. As I can't draw a UT tag to save my life, I usually hunt Nebraska whitetails from a tree stand. Shots are close, so I believe this bow is up to that task. Please let me know if this is not the case. Thanks in advance for any information offered on this bow or the appropriate arrows for me to shoot with it.

Call Garry Hall at DM custom arrows. He is doing this kind of work all the time. I am sure he will be able to help you find the right wood and components. And if you want to go that way he makes amazing arrows finished with custom fletching and cresting.
He also gets the sentimental part of hunting with a traditional bow that has some special meaning due to the people it has been passed through.

Thank you, Bob. I will.

Ted Fry at Raptor Archery is a good source for quality wood shafts/arrows. He answers the phone and has always been very helpful with questions.

https://raptorarchery.com/

I've fletched my own wood shafts for over 40 years and have made my own shafts with a hand plane and sandpaper. I'm usually disappointed with the shafts coming from the larger traditional archery suppliers. The last shafts I bought were from Ted and that's the first place I'll check next time I'm in need.

Thank you, J. I'll check him out.

Wow! This thread caught my eye. I didn't know recurves and cedar arrows were still a thing and, although my archery/bowhunting days are about 50 years back in my rearview mirror, I'm glad to see that "real" archery is still alive. At 13 or 14 my friends and I bowhunted rabbits and such all the time. I was kind of nut about it and bought components and tools (fletching jig, feather burner, head and knock taper "pencil sharpener" from Herters. As a kid with no knowledgable mentor I struggled, but did make arrows that shot okay if not very well. If I were to get back into bowhunting (unlikely, I like my guns too much) it would be with a recurve and cedar arrows.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I started the same way back in 1957 with a Ben Pearson take down fiberglass 30 pound bow. Shot lots of carp with it. Then bought a Herter's #50 17 degree 63 1/2" recurve which I still have. I also have a second Herter's 63 1/2" unused and a 72" #37 Herter's target bow. Still have fletched cedar arrows from the 60's. Bought several hundred cedar shafts from Anderson Archery back then. Pictures on request. Have not shot a bow in over 30 years.

Making really good arrows from cedar is an art. Buying good ones is very expensive. There's a lot to learn about bare shaft tuning, tapered or footed shafts, all kinds of fletching variations. It's great if a guy wants to make a hobby out of it or has money to spend on custom. It's money either way to get good matched custom arrows and it would be a lot easier to do it well if the guy shooting was the one making the arrows. It just depends on your expectations.

It's getting harder to find really good stock though, so it's kind of a dying art since carbon can be made to look the same, is more forgiving, straighter, and more durable.

I am lucky enough to still have a couple dozen Acme Port Orford shafts made in the 50's that I shoot in my self bow just for nostalgia.

Several suppliers will sell you a test pack of different spine shafts to try

Ive hunted traditional for many years. My main bow is a 1966 Bear Kodiak that pulls 53# @ 28". I draw to almost 31" and don't cut any length off my cedar shafts. I still have a couple hundred bare shafts from the 80's and enjoy making my own arrows. I don't bare shaft tune or weight sort my arrows. I'll straighten them prior to building is all. To me thats part of the beauty of shooting traditional. I fletch them up with 5" shield cut barred feathers and let them fly. There are different stains and sealers that can be used on the shafts. I've used Bear Razorheads or Zwickey for decades since I have a good supply of those, and they certainly work effectively. There are some great choices currently for cut on contact heads.

My last batch of wood shafts came from 3 Rivers, when they were still operating in the basement of a house LOL.

Made a beautiful matched set. Was fun, time consuming and not cheap. Broke a couple and said screw it
Went back to aluminum. When 5/16 carbons came out w weight tune systems I ditched aluminum.

Nobody makes a greybark carbon arrow. Would look good on my Blackwidow.

Here's some fun reading written by a guy who actually went out and tested arrows and broadheads for penetration on many game animals with trad. gear. He found going to heavy arrows with two blade single bevel grind, even for low poundage bows gave the best penetration. Like 600+ gr. wt. arrows with extreme weight forward specs.
https://www.ashbybowhunting.org/ashby-reports

I went to carbon, but a fully tuned up port Orford flying from a bow is a thing of absolute beauty. Order 100 shafts. Sort through them and pick the best 50. Sell the others or use them to shoot stumps or flu flus. 46# would prolly be a 55-60 spine and shoot them full length with 125 grain heads. 150s may get whippy. If you want to plug and play, grab a dozen from 3 rivers. Killed several deer with their hunter arrows and a zwicky delta. Traditional bowhunting is where it's at!

650 grains seems to be the bone breaking threshold.

They are pretty slow from a recurve LOL

The original AMO bow speed spec was for a 540gr arrow. Think the then common 2117.

If you want to shoot everything at spittin' distance, go for it (650gr or heavier).

Liked the speed of a 530gr from a FF strung 55# recurve. It was OK for 3D and hunting.

Lesser # and heavier arrow?...........aint nuthin for free.

You up the penetration... but reduce range and yardage estimation is more critical.

In my limited testing, the heavier spine stuff when papertune is good, seem more critical of release.

Like my stuff to be somewhat forgiving.

Whatever the OP uses, I'd suggest checking it with paper tune/bare shaft testing.

Lots of folks think they have good arrow flight.

Lighted nocks can be a real eye opener. Unfortunately, they aint for cedars.

Great information, gentlemen. Thank you very much. I will check out 3 rivers and test packs. I am not opposed to running modern arrows until I can get up to speed on the nuances of cedar arrow building/tuning. I will review all above and proceed accordingly. Good hunting!

That's me. And if you do decide you really like it and want to build arrows, get a Bitzenburger fletching jig.

Way back when
I usesd to make self bow's and arrow's from Hickory trees that I cut alonside a creek that ran through our farm,I would cut one down and Immediatly after cutting water just pours out the end,then take a splitting maul and split out some pieces about inches wide and about 74 inches long as I made mostly European style flat bows and Indian flat bows .
Take the staves back home after a couple of days pull the bark off and lay the staves on the floor.
After about a month or so start work on basice shape of bow by tapering the limbs and
thinning the limb'sfrom the sides and belley only, never the back( as the back of the bow is the part of the stave that you are looking at when you take the bark of.
decide whether a you want a working handle or a rigid handle or riser.
I always liked a working handle the best though as there is less stress on the limbs.

When it started to get close to the bending slightly I would then start using tillering board which was a 2x4 about 3 foot long with notches cut into the side every inch for the bow string to rest in as the bow is tillered starting at about 10-12 inches from the top.

Then just barely cut notches where you think you want the bowstring to go on the bow eventually ,cut them at least an inch from the length that you want the bow to be eventually to be.Cut the notches with a round chainsaw file,study the angle to cut the angle then tie a extra long bowstring (that you can easily make from dacron B-50 using a flemish twist(you can use the internet to learn to do this).

Then use a regular set of bathroom scales and set the 2x4 tillering board or stick and put it on top of the scales ,then rest the loosly strund bow on top of the tillering stick then pull down on the string in the middle and see if the bow bends anwhere.If it does anywhere then (and it will)
then take the stave off and start slightly removing wood with a fine rasp everywhere that was NOT bending, countinue this process until you get the limbs bending evenly remembering that the limbs shoult bend in a gracefull arc with the riser area much stiffer as you can go back at a later time and thin the belly and sides.
Never stress the wood just put the bowstring in a
notch in the tillering stick where there is the slightest of tension of the string then step back and look at the bowstring angle and the limb angle and see where the stave needs to have wood removed.Then after that is done slightly flex just slightly to work the areas where you removed the wood ,continue with this long process keeping the goal of a long gracefull arc while stalking the poundage of your eventual bow where you want it to be.
You do this by looking at the scales as you approach your draw length.
Remember that that a longer your draw length either the working part of the limbs and riser will need to be,but that is depending on the strength of that individual piece of wood.

As an example I have about a 27 inch draw ,I find that for me I like about a 67 inch bow with a slightly working riser about 50-55 pound draw weight using approximately a 1-1/2 wide limbs
That ends up with about 3 inches of limb follow in my area with our humidity but if you have a longer draw then the bow length or Limb width or both will need to be accounted for,Maybe an approx a 68 inch bow and or a 1-3/4 inch limbs .
That is why you cant just use dimemsions to make a bow,as you work the stave you have to let the wood strength decide for you how to tiller the bow.
After finishing the bow take a small very fine grit piece of sand paper and barely break the edges very similie to the curvature of a small pea, all the square edges. on hen let it sit braced at about a 5 or 6 inch brace heigth a day to settle in for a day then when you first start to draw the bow only draw the bow back about halfway of your draw length.Then lean it against the wall to check the tiller making sure the bow is still tillered properly in a long gracefull arc with slightly less arc in the handle or riser. You do NOT want a Hinged spot or a spot which is not bending.
I then like to use furniture Paste wax all over the bow to keep out the Moisture.

Get yourself a few books on self bow and you can learn more than the simple basic's
I have presented here.

Now for the wood arrow's
Take a hatchet after splitting a piece of hickory about 4-5 inches longer than than you want a finished arrow to be and about 1.5 inch sorta square

Take the hatchet or large knife and imagine turning that into a square and get it as square as much as possible,then you have sorta 4 corners then go to the corners ant take a large knife and shave them down and now you have 8 corners now take either a knife or a rasp and go to the corners and shave them down and now you have 16 corners which is approximately round.
At this point use a knife to scrape it until it is smooth and even in thickness

Then straighten the shafts bu putting an oil such as crisco on the shaft and holding ut to a heat source such as a wall stove,fire fireplace burner and get it real hot but dont burn it.
May have to use a pair of light cotton gloves and being carefull bend the shaft slightly past where wou want to bend it work the wood slow then set aside to cool it,repeat until you get the shaft relatively straight .once the shaft is straight enough for you than take a small rasp and knife to put a glue on broadhead using a 2 blade Bear or Zwickey broad head .once you have done that and matched the taper of the broadhead then glue it onto the shaft ,let it dry then spin it on a table top surface it it wobbles then soften the glue holding the broadhead and move the broad slightly untill you get it to spin without wobblying,once done take round chainsaw file and cut the self nock into the shaft that the bowstring fits in.
then glue or tie the turkey wing fletching onto the shaft.
Then either put a light varnish or a little oil on the arrow.

My arrows made from Hickory ended up about 27.5 inches long with a weight of about 650 grains,Never broke on anything although I lost a couple which will make you almost cry !

Never had anything jump the string so to speak even though using friends chronagraph the 50 pound bow with these arrows only went about 140 fps it was almost silent to shoot with the slow speed with the heavy arrow. Would also shoot through a broadside lung shot and one doe of about 70-80 pounds I shot straigt down from my tree stand and hit her square between the ears and the arrow penetrated through her head and was sticking about 6 inches out the bottom of her jaw needless to say she dropped on the spot and fell on the arrow sticking out the bottom of her jaw and did not break the arrow.


The way I see things are why waste energy from the bow by using light arrows that have to use silencers just to create a flatter shooting arrow, speed of sound is approx 1,100 feet per second and it induces more "Jumping the string" than a Heavier arrow that makes hardly any noise at all.

Of course that is a personal choice for every hunter but for me I like a Heavier arrow to absorb as much energy from a bowstring to make it as quiet as possible.

Nice write-up, but we need pics of your work! I started making my own archery gear 30-40 years ago. I mostly make glass laminated bows now, but here's the last selfbow I carved from Yew in the early '90s. I cut the tree, packed it down the mountain and aged the wood for several years. The draw is too heavy for me now so it needs to be worked down. That's a good thing - the tiller is not quite right and I have plenty of material to work with.




Here's part of my wood shaft stash - both store bought and ones I hand-planed from scratch (Cedar, Spruce and Fir).